Force weapons.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Force weapons.

Is there anything stopping you from paying for two force swords, gaining an extra attack and being able to store upto 2 warp cards. Obviosuly each sword would take a force card to power up.

Would also make a nice model

[Adoni-Zedek]

Nothing I can think of, other than expense...eight points and a wargear slot for another slot for a stored force card (assuming you're replacing a chainsword). So you can pay 20 pts for two cards and two parries, or 17 for 3 cards and one parry (force rod and chainsword).

[James 40K Champ ***]

yeah - but a chain sword is just strength 4 isnt it?

Where as a force sword is users.. and given that half of your attacks must be done by each arm, your much more deadly with 2 force swords.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Half your attacks must be done by each arm? Must be an OGC rule. So really, you're more effective in close combat if you have only powerfist, rather than a powerfist and a bolt pistol (assuming you have 2+ attacks). Does that system work the same against, say, a dreadnought? So half your attacks are wasted? Same goes for fighting terminators. (Okay, a bolt pistol is not completely useless against termies, but nearly so.)

To put this another way, adding a close combat weapon should increase your combat effectiveness, not decrease it. If you really want to implement something like this, I'd suggest a requirement that at least one attack must be from each weapon. This limits the effectiveness of adding a 2nd weapon, while still increasing your over-all combat effectiveness.

Back to the original question, if you've got nothing better to spend that 2nd wargear slot on, go ahead. If you're really going for storage, I'd just take a force rod.

[Simon]

As far as I was aware it wasn't half your attacks by each arm, it was that the additional attack afforded to you by the extra weapon has to be made by that weapon. So a powerfist wielding marine captain would make 3 'fist attacks and one bolt pistol (as he comes with one auto). He could split his attacks to 2 powerfist and 2 bolt pistol etc. but there's never a good reason for him to do this.

[James 40K Champ ***]

oh fair enough, that makes more sence. Just the aditional attack must be made by the aditional weapon then

[Adoni-Zedek]

Thanks for the clarification, Simon! That certainly does make more sense.

[LukeG]

The rough working we've been using is one of each force weapon in an army, so one axe, one sword, one rod, etc- but that was years ago. Need Mike to check.

Anyway,
the drawback is wargear slots. In general you're going to want a field to protect the character, then you'll probably want a psychic hood to balance off the potential extra force cards you're giving the enemy, THEN you can think about a force weapon. So we hit level three here, it'd need level four before you can dual weild and without sacrificing something else (unless you take a terminator librarian...). The fourth 'wild card' slot could then be an additional force weapon, but then it could be a piece of ranged wargear, or a support choice, or more protection like a medikit to restore your wounds or an aegis suit to ward off psychic powers...

More of a dilemma then it first sounds Although looking at this idea of double force storing, I'd say dual weild before taking another psyker. Sword + Rod could go off every other turn in a big way off a low flux...

Race you to a conversion Brown?

[James 40K Champ ***]

Nah, not much point to it really now I realise if you just have 2 cc weapons then you can still do all but one of your attacks with your best weapon.

Im gonna make a librarian with sword and combi weapon and a jump pack

[LukeG]

I'm interested in the force storage side of things: Rod and Sword.

THERE IS A BIGGER PROBLEM HERE!

Axe + Sword cost the same. What's the bloody point? Take the parry every time. I propose a points tweak incentive here. Sword +2 points, Axe -2 points. If it only costs 8 someone, somewhere, might bother with it.

[James 40K Champ ***]

I think all axes in the entire 40k system are broken. Ive kinda just lumped it because no1 else seems to think this.

But in my opinion, an axe and a sword for the same points, I think the axe should have an aditional -1 armour pen over the sword (thats what axes do.. chop thru stuff), and the ability to be used double handed.

The sword has parry.

No1 uses axes (except maybe berzerkers), but they are pretty cool, we should make them a bit better accross the board. Or as luke suggest, maybe just a points adjustment.

[Simon]

Basic Axe, vs. Basic sword is always going to come out in favour for the sword, however, I'm not convinced that the power axe has a massive drawback over the power sword.

The Axe comes in really handy if you are going for a heavy infantry/vehicle killer, whereas the sword is more just anti infantry and limited tactically.

Forget the parry - under OGC this isn't that effective anymore

Picture an assault marine not wanting to pay an extra 5 points for meltabombs and actually be able to still perform in a flexible way on the battlefield. He can go for the power axe - cheaper than the fist, and gain a very respectible D6+D12+6 armour penetration on vehicles, potentially scoring a max of 7 points more on the penetration roll than the power sword. Maybe they should be the same points, but I get annoyed that no-one considers this to actually be useful.

[James 40K Champ ***]

I suppose if your using a force axe with a character aswell, you can use it double handed on all your attacks if its your only h2h weapon

[James 40K Champ ***]

Im in work an tryin to remember how much the different level librarians cost,

I know level 3 is 152 and level 4 is 196

can anyone provide me with points costs for the 1st two levels plz

[Adoni-Zedek]

Lexicanium: 53 pts
Codicier: 97
Epistolary: 152
Chief Librarian: 196

[James 40K Champ ***]

cheers

[LukeG]

simon said:

Basic Axe, vs. Basic sword is always going to come out in favour for the sword, however, I'm not convinced that the power axe has a massive drawback over the power sword.

The Axe comes in really handy if you are going for a heavy infantry/vehicle killer, whereas the sword is more just anti infantry and limited tactically.

Forget the parry - under OGC this isn't that effective anymore

Picture an assault marine not wanting to pay an extra 5 points for meltabombs and actually be able to still perform in a flexible way on the battlefield. He can go for the power axe - cheaper than the fist, and gain a very respectible D6+D12+6 armour penetration on vehicles, potentially scoring a max of 7 points more on the penetration roll than the power sword. Maybe they should be the same points, but I get annoyed that no-one considers this to actually be useful.

Wrong weapon Simon

[James 40K Champ ***]

force axe and sword cost 10 points each, and can store a single card each right?

What the difference between them, appart from the swords parry

[James 40K Champ ***]

Right, just realised im a tard and dont know what im talking about.

Force sword and axe are essentially the same except the sword has parry and powers up +2 / -2

where as the axe just powers up +3 / -3

So given parry is not that powerful in our rules now, the axe is actually a great option! Im gonna get one

[LukeG]

What? Did you bang your head? What though this +2 and -3 come from?