Banshee masks

[Adoni-Zedek]

How does OGC handle Banshee Masks? Do they count as free hits on the turn you charge with them, or do you still roll against your opponent's weapon skill(roll on the close combat table)? Obviously, your opponent doesn't get to strike back this turn, assuming he survives.

Would the mark of Tzeentch give you a 4+ chance of ignoring the effects of the mask?

[tturen]

In regards to the save I would say yes. The masks utilizes a clearly stated psychic attack. The Mark then offers a save that 'wards against psychic attack'.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Does no one in the OGC play Eldar? No Banshees at all?

[Monovie]

i play the eldar

[James 40K Champ ***]

lol - great input there by monovie

[Adoni-Zedek]

So, Monovie, could you share with the forum how Banshee masks work?

[Monovie]

well...they're supposed to release these high pitched screams that disables the enemy when the banshee charge them. that it?

[Monovie]

disable*

[Adoni-Zedek]

I was hoping for a summary of their in-game effects. In-game mechanics, rather than fluffy mechanics.

[Monovie]

you'll have to ask mike, he's got the codex

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Banshee Mask

Banshee masks contain a special psychosonic amplifier which intensifies the Eldar's screaming battle cry to a piercing shriek.
Howling Banshees are trained how to release their rage as they charge into combat, and taught how to focus and project the resultant psychic scream against their enemies.
Enemies exposed to this psychic scream suffer almost total paralysis as their central nervous system is flooded with unbearable levels of psychic energy.

Special Rules

The target may not fire overwatch at the charging Banshee warrior, but is obliged to hold his ground. Furthermore, during the first round of combat the target rolls no attack dice because of the paralysing effect.
The Banshee mask is only effective when the Howling Banshee charges - it has no effect if the Howling Banshee is itself charged by an enemy model.
In the second and subsequent rounds of close combat engagement the Mask has no further effect.

Close combat only, 'Enemy rolls no attack dice in first round of charge'

[Adoni-Zedek]

Thank you, Yarlen. Very acurate and concise. OGC uses Mordheim rules for close combat resolution, so I was wondering how they resolve the howling banshee. Obviously the enemy charged rolls no attack dice. Does the banshee score free hits though, or does it roll on the close combat table for each attack to determine if it hits? (Man, trying to get the information I'm looking for here is like.....where's my prybar? Maybe that will help )

So when you've used Banshees, do they get free hits on the turn they charge, or do they have to roll for hits as normal?

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Well the victim still gets their basic WS but no attacks to add to their total score, so you don't get 'free' attacks.

The Banshees will get WS 4 + 2 attacks.
So minimum score of 5? maximum of 11.
Against basic troopers with WS 3, or Marine equivalents of 4 they're very screwed, noone ever takes powersword hits well.

Does Mordheim use the Fantasy WS vs WS system or WS vs I system?

[James 40K Champ ***]

it uses neither.. its kinda similar to each having a shooting phase, except use your WS to hit (with dice equal to number of attacks, then strength to wound as normal. So both combattans roll to hit each other (provided the charger, or one with higher initive fails to kill the other 1st).

Now i know the rules for the mask, I would be inclined to say the banshee attacks as normal (for our system), but the defender cannot strike back.. a little more effective than FEAR.. but then not quite as effective as it should be in the official commbat system.

But then I find our system takes a lot of beef out of some things in Hand to hand

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Banshee masks cause fear?

Harlequin masks cause fear.

So what is the benefit of charging in your HTH system?
Seems kinda flawed to me, but to each his own i suppose.

[Simon]

Nah, it works quite well. Our combat system works basically as the fantasy one, charger rolling to hit first, using the table of WS vs WS from the fantasy game. The banshee mask basically means that the defender does not roll any attack dice if the banshee charges, but the banshee still has to roll to hit as normal. They don't become amazing as a result, nor do they lose out on anything. They basically (because of high initiative) get a free round of combat and then will strike again before the opponent has a chance...

Oh, and mark of tzeench would work against it, as it mentions 'psychic' a good few times in the fluff.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

I've never really liked the fantasy close combat system, it usually means the charger always wins particularly in WFB.

One player stands around twidling their thumbs while their opponent goes to town on them and IF they manage to survive they get to fight back.

Plus it removes the input of the other player, potentially slowing the game down.
We use the 2nd edition CC system for our version too, the only change we made was to remove the fumble bonus to your opponent.
Rolling 1's on your attack dice is bad enough.

[Simon]

We've found that it speeds up the game quite well. As far as balance goes, it's rarely that one sided for a charger, it actually has reduced the ability of certain troops in combat (ie a genestealer) and made it worth getting stuck in. It doesn't work as well in fantasy because of generally low armour saves, but in 40K, where there is decent armour all over the place, it comes out well. In the older rules it was nearly impossible to hit a genestealer in combat with a space marine, now the assault squads can use their fast movement as a good advantage rather than them still being useless...

[tturen]

Stealers should rip apart space marines and most other units in CC. Period. Nids are a classic CC army and stealers are their classic highly specialized CC unit. Marines should be shooting them not going after them in CC. My votes still for the original h2h rules.

[Simon]

Oh no, don't get me wrong, the stealers still tear people apart, just that they can go after bigger things a little more effectively