Banshee masks

[bot]

if you combine fantasy and 42ed system can alter the melee.
ws comparison table means that you basically hit with each attack on 4+ (or 3+ if you have higher ws).

now if you use this system, maybe it's worth to keep:
- extra dice for next opponent
- fumbles and critical hits- additional 6's give you one more hit. and 1's reduce the number of hits scored.
- parries as usual. here i must say that i like 5th rule that you can parry with every weapon (risking damaging it on 4+).
- charging gives you extra dice.

e.g. genestealer (ws7, a3) rolls four dice. rolls are 1,2,6,6 which means 3 hits. if the roll would be 1,1,6,6 - 2 hits; 1,1, 5,6 - one hit.
number of attacks can be pumped up by frenzy, drugs. e.g. frenzied chariging wolf lord with claws could hit 8 times!
i think i playtest this system.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

It all sounds like needless complication of the close combat system, there is almost nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

Agreeing with Tturen here that noone in their right state of mind would ever engage genestealers in close combat.

That's why genestealers have toughness 4, 1 wound and a 5+ save, they're hardly invulnerable and die in droves even to massed lasgun fire.
Apart from Greater daemons, Avatars, suped up SM commanders and close combat specific assasins there is very little in the 40k universe that can last more than one round against a genestealer.

[James 40K Champ ***]

- fumbles and critical hits- additional 6's give you one more hit. and 1's reduce the number of hits scored.

- charging gives you extra dice.

I think we should try these 2 in our group, would ad extra flavour to our commbat, and as it stands I dont think you get enough advantage for charging anymore, an extra attack dice would probably temp people into going for more C&C, we all just shoot it out mostly at the moment.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Our system is a bit bad because things with high WS, should be able to land loads of attacks, and therefore deal lots of wounds.. but now, high WS just means u might hit more easily, which isnt that great if you only have 2 or 3 attacks..

[bot]

yeah, but at least you have the chance to strike that ws9 models.
on 5+.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

WS9?
WS7 is extremely rare, and rightly so if an imperial guardsman has absolutely no chance at beating it, that's what multiple combat bonuses and guns are for.

Kill the target at range before it gets a chance to make use of it's advantages, or charge said thing with a unit so big that you'll have a million extra attacks and weapon skill bonuses by the time the combat is over, it only takes 1 powerfist strike to kill most things in the 40k universe.

The fantasy to hit chart is broken anyway, the removal of 2+ and 6+ to hit makes the system long winded and tedious.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Here's the rules my group uses:
Only models in base contact with an enemy model may fight in close combat, and if in contact with multiple models, must divide their attacks among their opponents before rolling any dice. Models that “ignore multiple combatants” gain +1 A for each model they are outnumbered by (ie. an eversor assassin in contact with 5 genestealers would gain +4 attacks this round of close combat for being outnumbered). This does not include any modifiers for multiple weapons, charging bonuses, etc.
Charging models gain +1 Attack, and +2 Initiative. Other modifiers:
-3 Initiative (-1 net) for charging models in cover.
+1 Attack for each additional close combat weapon being wielded (limited by number of grasping limbs on the model)
+1 Initiative for being on higher ground than opposing models.
Attacks are carried out in order of initiative, beginning with the highest initiative first. Ties are resolved simultaneously. Yes, this means you and your opponent may do each other in.
The attacking model rolls one die for each attack, and consults the Close Combat to-hit table to determine if he hits his enemy. If a hit is scored, roll to wound as normal.
The Attacker's WS is down the right side, defender's along the top. The asterisks are to provide spacing so the values line up properly on the forum.
** 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
*1 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
*2 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6
*3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 6
*4 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6
*5 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6
*6 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6
*7 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6
*8 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5
*9 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5
10 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4
This version provides more importance to WS again, while still using initiative to determine who attacks first. Genestealers, with an initiative of 7, are still likely to rip through just about anyone, even when they get charged. Only the high-initiative aspect warriors, harlequins, and wyches have a fair chance of taking out a genestealer brood on the charge. And, of course, high-level characters.

It's still not a perfect system, but I like it better than the GW WS/WS tables.

[James 40K Champ ***]

and that is ontop of the mordhiem rules is it?

I quite like a few of those rules, I think if we used some of those it would put back the kick into CC that it needs.

Especially +1 attack for charging.


'gain +1 A for each model they are outnumbered by' -
Not so sure about that one though, that would mean high power characters could rip through everything in contact with them every turn.. fair enough if thats how you like it in your group. But we as you know, dont

[tturen]

I spent a fair amount of time wacking away at people with swords, maces, polearms, and other CC weapons in my younger years. What I found was that 90% of the time the initiative did not matter simply because a better fighter would allow an opponents first blow or series of strikes to open up a target for the kill. In fact my bread and butter was the counter strike for this reason. After a short burst of exchanges it was soon over. The existing h2h rules in 40k represent this exchange of blows exceptionaly well. The I based sytems struggle to do so and I have trouble visualizing any exchange.

[Adoni-Zedek]

jamesb15uk said:

'gain +1 A for each model they are outnumbered by' -
Not so sure about that one though, that would mean high power characters could rip through everything in contact with them every turn.. fair enough if thats how you like it in your group. But we as you know, dont

Well, that type of model is exceptionally rare. Eversor Assassins and a very few other models. And that type is supposed to rip through just about anything. Anyway, that was the best way I could come up with to represent that.

[bot]

** 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
*1 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
*2 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 6 6
*3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 6
*4 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 6
*5 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6
*6 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6
*7 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6
*8 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5
*9 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 5
10 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4

the above table is great! now if goff nob attacks sm captain, he ususally rolls two dice needing 5+ to land a hit. whereas captin replies with 4 hits with 2+ chance of succes. tediousness yarl mentioned is gone.

charging models always strike first, or they gain initiative bonus???

[Adoni-Zedek]

Charging models gain an initiative bonus, or a penalty against models in cover. Strike in order of initiative.

Nob WS4? Captain WS7:
Nob hits on 6+, Captain hits on 3+

To get a 2+, you need a WS 4 points higher than your opponent. Genestealers hit guardsmen on a 2+.

[bot]

yeah i know that in your version they gain init bonus. i was just asking which option is better: bonus or simple 'strike first'?

[James 40K Champ ***]

Personally I think strike 1st, well thats what we use anyway.. but I do kinda like the idea of init the more I think about it.

[Adoni-Zedek]

I prefer the initiative method. Of course, I tend to play high initiative armies (marines, Eldar, Harlequins), while my opponent plays chaos and orks. Hence the +2 initiative bonus when charging, so Orks have a chance against other armies.