D-Cannon question

[Adoni-Zedek]

The BattleBible states that vehicles hit by the D-Cannon are only affected on a 4+, but armor penetration is automatic. Then it states that all targets hit must roll on the following table:

1-4: Destroyed
5: Displaced (Roll on displacement table)
6: Moved (Scatter 2d6”)

So here’s my question: For affected vehicles, do you roll on the vehicle’s damage table (auto-penetrate), the D-Cannon Table, or both? One of the results of the displacement table is “Inverted.” If the target is a vehicle, it’s unharmed, but can no longer move (upside down). Any top-mounted weapons are unusable, but side sponsons, etc, still work normally. This seems to imply you should roll on the D-Cannon table, but the ‘penetration is automatic’ part implies the target vehicle’s damage table. So you can see how I might be confused.


What do you guys think? Does the Eldar Codex clear this up at all?

[tturen]

With the D-cannon all locations covered roll a D6 and are affected on a 4+. All of these 'hit' locations then roll on the Distort Test table. Rolls of 1-4 on this table are counted as a 6 on the data fax location as I recall. Displaced locations though just get moved although only the location hit is displaced and not the entire vehicle!

Found this as well:

"(33) What happens when a D-cannon hits a tank? Say you fire at a Leman Russ and you affect the sponson. You roll on the distort table and get a displacement result (a "5"). Proceeding, you get a warped underground result from the displacement table. Does the sponson get ripped off (maximum damage) and warped underground, or does the entire tank get warped underground? Are there any suggestions for situation like this, since my group can't decide on what happens?

Only the location hit gets affected. Roll for damage on that location, but it does not automatically gets ripped off. "

The D-cannon rules are not well written in terms of damage even within the Eldar Codex.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Whoa! Weird! What an odd weapon.

Actually, the response seems to imply you don't roll on the displacement table at all. Hmmm.... Even GW FAQs leave a lot to be desired. (Assuming that came from a FAQ. If not, where did it come from). Half the time it seems like their answers focus too much on the specific question, and not the idea behind the question. If the sponson was displaced, how is it not ripped off? Or at least destroyed?

Thanks!

[tturen]

Indeed the GW response leaves a lot to be desired. The posted response though is from GW rules boyz. How somthing could be displaced and not 'ripped off' is beyond me given that all the dispacement results move the hit location from its original position. That assumes the damage roll in the response is from the displacement table...

[James 40K Champ ***]

that sounds messy

[LukeG]

The rules are strange for this, if I was forced to rule on this when abjudicating a game I would propably say catching the hull can result in the entire vehicle being warped while any other location can be torn off seperately.
I would assume the garbled auto penetration rule meant there was no roll to destroy by distruption, the D-Cannon rules ignore the normal process.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Id agree with luke.

No roll on the damage table. When they say it 'auto penetrates' they simply mean the vehicle is auto affected by distortion, and no need to roll to penetrate before moving the vehicle is needed (which without that clarification many people would argue it needed).

[tturen]

That view makes good sense and as GW never did a good job of explaining their intent I think I'd go with it as well.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Thanks for the help, guys! That really makes more sense. I'm planning on a squad of wraithguard and a dreadnought with a D-Cannon (Big wraithguard with Big wraithcannon). And maybe one on a weapons platform as well.

;D

[James 40K Champ ***]

lol nice, hope it fares you well oh pointy headed one..

pure jeleous at some of the arsanel availale to a eldar general!! Must be SOOOO fun pickin an eldar army

[tturen]

Seconded!

[Adoni-Zedek]

That's "Pointy HELMETed One", to YOU, James. Or perhaps "Pointy Eared One." Eldar don't have pointy heads, only pointy ears.

I have one support weapon en route from an ebay auction (got it for $8.50 US, including shipping). I'd really like to try a pair of vibro cannons at some point. That could be cool. But I'll need more guardians first (I only have 16, two of which are assembled and painted, and you need two squads of 10 for two support weapon platforms). In fact, most of my eldar still need paint and glue. And I may need another box of guardians.

My harlequins are the ones I'm really excited about, though. I've already got a dreadnought (old-style Epic scale Phantom Titan), and it should be a fun army to play, once I get it put together. (just need to wait for my mini's to arrive, and get them all painted) . If only I could find a suitable model for the Avatar of the Laughing God!

[tturen]

Guardians can be taken in 5 man squads so you could put fewer pointy ears/helmets on the table and take more cannons...

I'd wish you luck with the Eldar but well they are still Eldar... There isn't an army out that I enjoy smashing more.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Really? I thought they came in squads of 10-20. . . No, you're right. The BattleBible says 5-10. Cool! Only the Harlequins are 10-20.

Hopefully my army will be fairly balanced. Guardians, Banshees/Scorpions, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Jetbikes, a Dreadnought, a Falcon and a Fire Prism, Wraithguard, and a Farseer and a few warlocks. Plus a support weapon or two.

I've got three exarches (Hawk, Banshee, and Reaper), but I plan on having them stay with their squads to add extra durability. I still need to pick up a Striking Scorpion Exarch for when I'm facing mobs of Orks or IG, But I can substitute my banshee exarch until then (equipped with striking scorpion wargear, and NOT banshee wargear)

Of course, I've only fought one battle using my Eldar (though I've fought against them 4 times), but that came out fairly well. My dark reaper exarch (equipped with a shuriken cannon) focused on 'soft' threats to his squad, while they focused on hard targets. My swooping hawks performed a flawless krak drop/lasgun combo on their 2nd turn, wiping out an isolated deathskulls mob. My guardians didn't do much more than stand there, though they were prepared to attack any warbikes that survived the dark reaper squad (none did). And my wraithguard (led by my farseer) managed to wipe out Mad Doc Grotsnik. It was only a 1000 pt battle, so I didn't bring in jetbikes.

Against the IG, I would probably use swooping hawks and jetbikes equiped with melta bombs to take out the tanks, while using my guardians and plasma missile dark reapers for the troops, with the help of a roving squad of scorpions. Of course, this is all mere speculation, but I think I'd at least stop you from a complete slaughter. Well, I'd like to think that, anyway.

I suppose a lot of it depends on the preliminary barrage, and what models you keep in reserve. If I expose my jetbikes early, you can bring your tanks on from reserve and blast them while they're vulnerable. Same goes for grav tanks and support weapons. That Reserves rule really helps you overcome the disadvantage of a low strategy rating, doesn't it. Something to keep in mind when fighting Guard armies.

[tturen]

A well played IG army is an Eldar nightmare. Hawks that fly high to deliver CC krak grenades tend to get blasted by overwatch. Exarchs though escorted by warp spiders can get through. My Rattlings used to put real teeth in my IG's overwatch. You would need characters on bikes to deliver melta bombs and they would still have to engage the infantry screens first.

IG are a tough nut to krak. I had one of our guys drop 900 points of Eldar in my IG DZ by turn two. They destroyed three tanks but at such cost that their army was effectivly destroyed.

Things like the barrage never worked well for me as I never had the luck for them but the reserve rule is gold. Its a huge asset against the Eldar. I used to keep a hellhound and or a chimera with vet run and shoot flamers on board in reserve. Eldar forces that went forward tended to get flamed.

Ah, I miss playing the IG and roasting Eldar. ;D

[Adoni-Zedek]

I thought guardians had access to the grenades list, but they don’t. They can buy krak grenades for +3 points each, which are pretty good at penetrating armor when placed in close combat. Just not quite as good as melta-bombs. I can also get them powerfists, but those are +10 pts each, for not much better penetration. They still need to get past your screening troops in any case.

Wraithguard can ignore your normal guardsmen (lasgun penetration tops out at 9), but still need to watch out for special and heavy weapons, as well as tanks. And they’re slow compared to other eldar, and have a short range (16”) to boot. On the other hand, they’re very good shots (BS5, 6 with a warlock within 12”), and kill half the time. Against vehicles, they auto penetrate, making them exceptionally nasty (assuming I can get them close enough).

Have you ever faced vibrocannons? They seem fairly potent. Something I need to try.

[tturen]

I've faced wraithguard with IG and simply used the reserve rule to deploy well away from them but they are rather effective if they reach weapons range. Thats not easy with all the IG heavy weapons, the short WG weapon range and the fact that they can't hide.

Vibro cannons? I've only faced them a few times. If used correctly they are effective if somewhat random. Keep in mind they can only hit vehicle tracks, legs, or tires so they can pass directly under a tank and not hurt it. They are also blocked by hills and as I recall large buildings.

[Adoni-Zedek]

The BattleBilbe description doesn't say anything about hills or buildings blocking the Vibrocannon. The Codex may be more specific. At any rate, they are more likely to immobilize than kill vehicles (except for walkers, where immobilized is killed).

[tturen]

This is from the Q&A from GW:

(47) I read that the vibro-cannon is blocked by buildings. Is it blocked by anything else?
Yes, its also blocked by terrain features such as hills.

Although its from GW its not 'official' as it was never published in a WD. We tend use the Q&A to settle such things though. Note there are at least 4 Q&A entries for the vibro alone. Mostly because the codex is not specific.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Well, I wanted a challenging army. Looks like I picked the right one. I could always go with the 11-D-Cannon Army of Death, but an army crafted around the support weapon platforms really doesn't appeal to me. (Plus I'd need a whole lot more guardians). I'd rather lose with a more balanced force, than win with a tricked-out one. Of course, I'd rather win than lose, but I'd rather have fun doing it.

Now I just need to paint 30+ eldar, 5 jetbikes, and 2 grav tanks. Plus around 30 harlequins.