Calling All Gamers!!!

[Simon]

OK, we need to start playtesting these new Tau and Kroot rules...

Anyone up for the challenge from eastern fringe???

I've already completed the first lot of ammendments, so if you find that the rules on the website are in any way flawed, then give your opinion here...

[bot]

post sometimes i rt\2ed section of eastern fringe...pls

[TTuren]

I'm presently trying to revise a Tau codex thats posted on the Fringe and am working on playtesting in a few weeks. The codex itself is up for debate their as well.

Best of luck and I have a copy of the OGC codex Tau now.

[tturen]

Play tested the 'T' Tau codex today. Got stomped rather badly by a fully cheesed Eldar army. Overwelming fire power was simply to much for the Tau force my ally and I fielded as the Tau lack heavy weapons (exceprt for rail guns) of their own we were obliged to advance in the face of them to get into range with predictable results. 5 scatter lasers, 3 laz, 4 shurk cannons, 9 reapers, 1 Maug, and two psykers can deal a lot of death to a tankless 2000 point Tau force.

[Simon]

can you post an army list up here for what you took? That way we can figure out what happened and solve it a bit better...

[tturen]

We had a basic list just get an idea of how the bare bones army would play and in theory we were playing a 'non-cheesed' eldar force (However our opponents list was optimized to destroy Tau. Not what we expected at all.) The list:

3x Crisis suits. 1 Shas O commander with linked plasma, missle mod, multi tracker, shield. 2 Shas Ui with twin linked plasma, unknown third hardpoint.

3x Broadsides with Railguns 2x plasma, 1x smart missile, all with 'stabalizer matrix' to allow them to move and fire the Rails. All bonded.

1x Etheral with honor blade
18x gun drones
6x Stealth (Burst cannon)
10 Fire warriors
15 or so Kroot with shaper
20 Human Aux with two Laz cannons (We ran out of Tau and the points fit was perfect.)

Deployment alternated, due to scanners *house rules* Tau infiltratrors could not deploy within scanner range.

First turn to Tau Enemy in hideing. Tau advance gun drones, stealth and IG. Two broadsides destroy 1 weapon arm on walker. Remaining forces on overwatch.

Turn 1 Eldar: What we assumed to Laz cannon grav platforms turn out to be scatter lasers and they decimate the IG/ Drone screen on right flank. One walker and 3 warping/cannon armed Exarchs destroy the left screen of IG and some drones with aid from 3 reapers with plasma missiles.

Turn 2 Tau: Tau advance crisis / stealth suits on left flank, 2 Broadsides cover advance by destroying walker with damaged arm. Stealth suits empty burst cannons at walker #2 and hope to get lucky as its all thats in range after dispatching one reaper. Crisis suits destroy the rest of reaper squad 1. Shas O commander destroyed in psy phase by Laz can.

Eldar 2: Tau overwatch with Laz cannon destroys Viper. 'Reinforcements' brings back walker #1. Walkers 1 and 2 with scatterlasers destroy Stealth team and move out of LOS from Broadsides. Reaper squad two and Exarchs destroy Crisis team and last Tau Laz Can. Warp spider team warps in to expose Kroot who are decimated by scatter grav platforms.

Game over.

Tactical notes: Tau limited model selection and no 'cheese' test army. Eldar min/maxed to destroy Tau force with only three min squads of guardians all other models with HW's or psykers.

Tau force command split with one seasoned commander and one green with limited tactical understanding of Tau. Eldar with veteran commander.

Lesson one: Never believe an enemy won't take full advantage with a stacked deck against a 'test' army.

Lesson two: The 'T' codex XV suits move only 12". Not enough mobility for the short ranged weapons that will have to advance against all foes.

Lesson three: Huge size of Crisis suits exposes them to tremendous amounts of fire and they cannot hide.

Lesson four: Crisis suits atleast need targeters as standard equipment. Not only was it hard to advance but it was dificult to hit anything when they did so. his left the suits in exposed positions in close proximity to the enemy. Not even the 'T' codex suits 1+D6 armor can survive in a heavy weapon world.

Lesson five: The Tau need atleast some longer ranged weapons as opposing armies bring them under fire across huge sections of front. I'm considering a power pack in the Tau armory that would add 6" range and +D6 armour penetration.

Lesson six: Build shield drones and equip XV suits with them. An absolute must have if the advancing Tau are to survive long enough to be effective.

Lesson seven: Buy more Fire Warriors who atleast have a 30" range.

Lesson eight: Tau have extremely limited anti-armour weapons and the Broadsides are easily out manouvered. Marker lights could help some but offer no solution without a Hammerhead.

[Simon]

Lesson 2: Try upping the movement to 7" and see what happens.

Lesson 3: It can't really be helped without reducing the cost of the squad (or improving their stats for free)

Lesson 4: OGC list crisis, broadside and stealth suits all come with targetters as standard.

Lesson 5&8: There are some forge world weapon variants, but they are stuck on hammerheads again, the powerpack sounds like an interesting idea.

[Charly]

id say firstly that u shud play at least 2 more games with the same armies if possible, just to get a better idea of how things work, the first battle is neva gonna be that successful.

[Charly]

was this done using the tau rules on this website?

[Simon]

No no no, this is the Eastern Fringe one. But I've had a good look at it and they're both quite similar, and still highlight problems with the Tau range of models.

[tturen]

"Lesson 2: Try upping the movement to 7" and see what happens."

In the 'T' codex the crisis suits have max 12" of movement without penalty but I could increase this to 14" to see if thats enough.

"Lesson 3: It can't really be helped without reducing the cost of the squad (or improving their stats for free)"

True and these models are expensive as well as huge. Even 1+ armour isn't good enough as the huge model size attracts fire from all over. I might reduce cost a bit and I will add targeters to atleast the crisis.

"the powerpack sounds like an interesting idea."

The 'T' codex has the fusion blaster as a close range (bonus +2D6 within 6") tank killer but the power pack would expand its roll considerably with range 18" and 3D6+8 armour penetration. If placed in the Tau armory it would be limited to command models. This I think is a must add and would help with ranged fire support a bit when hooked to plasma weapons with 30" range 2D6+6.

I'll be down gradeing the 'T' codex rail guns to OGC stats.

Why no shield drones in the OGC codex?

I think you will need higher armour values on the crisis and broadside suits. (Broadsides in 3/4th have terminator armour.)

"id say firstly that u shud play at least 2 more games with the same armies if possible, just to get a better idea of how things work,"

We will be playing more but I'm afraid these two armies as posted would just see a second or third Tau rout by turn 3. I see your point and its well taken though.


"No no no, this is the Eastern Fringe one. But I've had a good look at it and they're both quite similar, and still highlight problems with the Tau range of models."

Well it WAS a Fringe codex but as its mine and I got banned from the fringe while advocateing for higher posting standards it no longer is. It's still up on the Heresy though.

The OGC and T codex are indeed similar in terms of play. As they evolve it seems likely they will grow closer.

[Simon]

"Why no shield drones in the OGC codex?"

I was struggling to figure out a points cost but I've got them sorted out now. They're in my revised edition along with getting rid of the -1 long range on the pulse rifle.

It is possible to have maybe Pathfinder squads with a special anti armour grenade, maybe similar to a haywire grenade but less effective...

Perhaps having a 5+ save on 2D6 would be enough, but I'll test the battlesuit rules for the OGC one myself as I think this is the only area where we differ...

[El Capitan]

It seems weird to see a CODEX being developed by OGC and not being a part of it after the horror of all the work the Necrons and Dark Eldar ones took. Still its good to see, keep up the good work

Also if you have testing feedback on Kroot tehn please shoot iut back to me as Kroot were my development and I still have the notes somewhere justifying the points costs etc

[tturen]

"It is possible to have maybe Pathfinder squads with a special anti armour grenade, maybe similar to a haywire grenade but less effective... "

The T codex has EMP grenades that do exactly that. Cost 5pts effect one location and penetrate with a -1 to the damage table roll on a 4,5,or 6. At present they can't be thrown but I think that will need to change.


"Also if you have testing feedback on Kroot tehn please shoot iut back to me as Kroot were my development and I still have the notes somewhere justifying the points costs etc"

I looked that over awhile back and I'll look again. I haven't given the Kroot much thought. Maybe because I don't have any yet. That to will need to change.

[Simon]

OK, I've finished my first wave of ammendments based on some research into units costs, feedback off this thread, and generally expanding the Tau...

Notably in this is the 'Tau and the Warp' rule. This is put in based on the background of the Tau, and adds to the overall defensive theme of the entire list...

[tturen]

So can I get a copy? [e-mail]

I'd like to review the changes as I'm ready to update the T codex and may be able to better correlate the codex with yours.

Cheers!

[tturen]

OK so shield drones are in but crisis suits can't take drone controlers?

[Simon]

Oops... That must have just slipped through the net...

Though I'm not sure how it would work, seeing as the models are classed as a monstrous target and drones are man sized...

Any suggestions?

[tturen]

"Any suggestions?"

With gun drones its not an issue as both can be targeted seperatly due to size. Shield drones are only a problem because of the shield I think but the basics still apply to them so either the shield drone or the battle suit could be targeted. In both cases though the shield would have to be penetrated first. Now If a man sized Fire warrior is in front of the drone then he's got to shot first of course. Atleast thats how we are working it.

[Simon]

With the battlesuits though it is possible to give them a shield generator. Basically, I feel that shield drones would not work for Battlesuits just because of the complications in the rules (remember that the invulnerable save is only for the drone) given that the suits are large targets. I can see the gun drones working easily, it's just that pesky shield drone...