Eldar

[El Capitan]

to keep inline with the 4th ed Eldar rules and to add to their background some changes have been made!

First of all, all the craftworld and vehicle updates will appear on the website soon.

Some testers though, since Eldar weapons are better than Imperial ones, but not so in the rules the folwoing changes occur,

Lasguns - 1SD (bear in mind only guardians & swooping hawks...who are absolute shite without this, can have them)

Heavy Plasma Gun - now star cannon, always max power with no recharge

Lascannon - completely replaced by Pulse laser

Missile launcher - has plasma missile auto instead of frag

All of these heavy weapons are vehicle only.

This makes the eldar seem a but more technologically superior whulst only making subtle changes to their rules. I originally thought that a points increase was necessary but I would now rule against it, Edlar weapons are cheaper than most anyway and these changes would be adding awkward numbers lile +2 to things that are already nice and rounded.

[LukeG]

I'm not sure about this, the Eldar were never slouches without being given even more firepower. As for testing, Monovie would be next to useless. If we had Pang this would be simple.
This needs a lot more looking at. Especially if you're handing out free upgrades.

[Simon]

The lasgun upgrade would only really be seen if someone was using swooping hawks as now the new models all come with shuriken catapults as standard... So it's not so bad, but they should cost a little more anyway to make up for that...

[bot]

i don't like to change the rules of 2ed. if something is isn't worth using- i make it cheaper.
for example: vanilla marines 25 points, ripper swarm 10 points, etc.

[Charly]

making something cheaper IS changing the rules. vanilla marines not worth using?

[bot]

i mean for 30 points per model (and 10 man squad) you can get dozens of other troops that are just way better then vanilla smurfs.take space wolves for example. almost any eldar.
smurfs is one of my greatests armies. it's really hard to win with them anything. dreads save the day all right but marines aren't all that effective for their points.
i play using black codex only. paying 250 for ten man squad does the trick.

[El Capitan]

Vanialla marines have been the most affective of Space MArines within OGC winning on average over half of their games. The comvbination of non-Codex chapters sees this stat plumet to less than 20% (though thats with 3 bad players, 1 had a 60% win rate).
Marines are a damn good army, though like the necrons, they have to stay on top of the game, if they go full froental instead of concentrating on set objectives then they get overwhelemd and destroyed.
At the moment we only allow Vanilla's to have grey knights (for stroy purposes) and are thinking of a few other bonuses to modding your own chapter (were giving ultramarines tyranid hunters to make sure they dont get left out).

[Charly]

the new models for tyranid hunters seem to just have boltguns, so they wudnt fit in with the veteran assualt idea. could easily use other models, just seems sensible to use the one that have been designed for it. so what u reckon the rules for tyranid hunters should be? personally i think they should all be allowed assualt cannons :-p

[El Capitan]

this seems to have completely deviated from the Eldar now but what the hell.

by the looks of the Tyranid Hunters ( uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/ultramarines-gallery/5/ ) models they could probabaly just be a standard veteran squad upgrade, since these seem to follow be like that. Perhaps make them fearless and have acute sense will work. ideas....

+ I saw these today; uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/miniature-gallery/15/
This is a unit that cannot be bought from the 2nd ed list and seems to be made up of supermen, not very 2nd ed but i guess they'd make good vet sergeants.

[Charly]

maybe a bonus to bs or ws? space wolf style

[Simon]

How's this...

Immune to psychology caused by tyranids (including break tests)...

Give them something like a bonus to their armour save to represent some of the bionics etc. so maybe a 2+ armour save??

[El Capitan]

Its important that any new units do not have specific extra rules against certain races as this mashes the points up. Hatred is usally the limit but having a special rule against tyrnaids means their points value is only justified against that specific army.

[Simon]

Why not just give them immune to psychology then?

[Charly]

thats not really gonna make much difference with marines, i certainly wudnt bother paying extra points for being immune to psychology when i already have the shaken rule for free.

[LukeG]

Being immune to psychology gives you some completely infallable troops to fight around. Play Tyranids some more, after a vital countercharge being snuffed by fear you'll come around.

[Charly]

i dunno. lets hear some other possibilties then we can have a vote.

[bot]

quote: Lasguns - 1SD (bear in mind only guardians & swooping hawks...who are absolute shite without this, can have them)

swooping hawks - lasguns aren't their main weapon. wings and krak greades are. i tell you one thing: 3 hawks+ 36"flight+kraks = say bye bye to any skimmer (esp. sm skimmer - 156 points) say bye bye to tyranid warriors, hive tyrant (with a bit of luck), 75 pts devastator model etc.

[LukeG]

BS4 -1 to hit at S6 isn't what you would call a reliable tankbuster. At some point they're going to be using their rifles and they might as well not have them. Like you said, there main weapons are wings and grenades.

[El Capitan]

swooping hawks cannot throw greandes if theyve dropped them this turn, and in almost every case they land well beyond their grenade target and end up recieving a mincing from their completely usless flashlights. IG get away with it on account of the hordes, but swooping hawks are lucky if an entire group can put down a single space marine. and the hawks can give away a lot of VPs for very little effort

[bot]

quote: but swooping hawks are lucky if an entire group can put down a single space marine.
say what?! excuse me!

quote: BS4 -1 to hit
only if you throw kraks. hawks' grenade launchers cancel that modifier. don't forget it.
add 36" range.

hawks are't supposed to be tank busters. farseer, exarchs and support stuff is. sometimes dark reapers.

fact is that most of hawks' missions are suicidal. they attack, destroy and die:(