Blind Grenades

[James 40K Champ ***]

Quite a few of us played with blind grenades. While fun and useful, we did find they are quite labor intensive and slow the game down somewhat.

Someone on the boards mentioned to me that in their group they made the template last 1 full turn, then disappeared.

i.e. You fire it, it lasts your opponents entire turn, and then your next turn, before disappearing altogether.

You could still roll for it to shrink or disappear at the start of each turn in addition.


I think this would be good to adopt, just tidys them up slightly.

[El Capitan]

Wouldn't that just mean they protect you for a turn and then your fine with no repercussion? If they stay put then when used defensively (like smoke) they seem to be too good.

On the offence it seems fine (like targeting heavy squads for a turn), but this tidy rule seem easy to exploit for protective tactics

[James 40K Champ ***]

There would be repercussions in that it would still last your own next turn, so you still have to worry about it getting in the way if you stay still, but if you move past or around it, it has no further effect anyway and so disapearing seems sensible?

I have no issue with how they work, just thought this could make them a bit easier to deal with in game.

Not too fussed either way.

[El Capitan]

Its worth bearing in mind, we've speeded so many things up that if they were in wide use we would probably call for it!

On a note, I would not be against Plasma grenades not remaining in play! They are Str 5 -2 save 1/12 inch blast after all, just 1 point more than a Frag and the remains in play can be a real pain.

something to roll in the mindtank

[James 40K Champ ***]

Ok then, leave blinds as they.

I dont think there is too much call for changing plasma grenades, only certain armys/troops can take them, and not many people seem to use them.

(except me with sisters of battle, but I dont field them anymore).

[zippysguitar]

Its my group that play with the alternate smoke rules.
Basically it protects you for ur opponents turn and then yours but then dissapear, which means u can use them for defense for one opponent turn, then in your turn they get in your way but at the end of that they dissapear making you vunurable to ur opponent.
We did it because before players were just firing loads everywhere and camping behind them for most of the game, which was just crap in 4 turn game.
Plus we did away with the drifting and size changing rolls just to speed the game up rather than getting bogged down rolling for loads of clouds and having to make lots of templates of different sizes and remember which cloud was meant to be doing what the turn after.

[El Capitan]

Interesting, all the drifting and that is well and good in a game like Necromunda but is just too long winded and littering for 40k.

Your ideas sound good!

Similar for a Plasma grenade?

[zippysguitar]

Yep same for plasma grenades.
Playing with my eldar firing plasma missiles everywhere just got to be stupid using the normal rules, no one could move or see anything lol!

[James 40K Champ ***]

I think it makes sense, they are still very effective for 1 turn, then you get to tidy things up.

They still have almost the same effect on the game, except youve removed ALL of the dice rolls.

[tturen]

My scouts favorite weapon is the blind grenade. They do become a pill after a couple turns of popping them of but those long lasting effects can be game altering. The simplified rules would make them considerably less effective given how I tend to use them. With that said the Wolfs scouts are extremely effective on a point per model basis when equiped with them so the more limited effect woudn't prevent me from using them.

[James 40K Champ ***]

But my only concearn is how much they slow a) the game machanics down and b) actual game play as whole chunks of army are cut off.

I know that is their role, but they would still do it very well for a single turn, which is still quite powerful, and surley a dedicated scout squad and keep the wall up anyway by throwing them again..

And in the interest of fun, no one likes sitting either side of a wall of smoke for 4 turn ending in a 3-3 draw..

[El Capitan]

There was no smoke in that 3-3 draw - just one of the worst games ever in OGC history

(i refer to a 2000 point game that ended 3-3 between Luke Greensmith & James Brown in September 1999)

[James 40K Champ ***]

I know, im just pointing out that smoke screens that linger take away from the game rather than add, IMHO

[El Capitan]

Luke'll make an all smoke/blind army and try and 0-0 draw his way to the Tournament

[James 40K Champ ***]

lol, he probably would. Hell thats a better idea than driving all your tanks into the midst of a horde of tyranids and hoping the engines will explode taking all the nids out :s

[tturen]

I love popping off smoke and being behind it as part of a tactical deployment that isolates the main enemy force and leaves the remainder of the enemy exposed to my own main army. Deny, Destroy, Flank, Destroy. Works wonders and the scouts die quickly because of it as the enemy units that have fire lanes often find them to be choice targets. I would hate to be the victim though.

If the price payed is a slower game I have no problem with that. Other players certainly do though and with that in mind I have no issue with a change to one full turn cycle of use. In fact thats how I designed some of the Tau grenades in the codex. Besides scouts are cheap and with the rule change I'd just paint up my second squad off scouts. ;D

[James 40K Champ ***]

I always want to use scouts, but never can seem to find the points to fit them in :/

Ive got a converted scout with multi melta too lol


So are we just leaving them as they are then? Or simplify them?

[El Capitan]

Its hard to say because we haven't had that muc experience with them but following when there is a lot of smoke or plasma its bloody annoying, even when its you doing the damage!

Im generally for the 1 turn effects

[James 40K Champ ***]

That was my general impression, it seems to hinder the game all round and is annoying having to work out all those clouds. If it was just a single rocket that would be one thing, but when whole squads, or auto launchers on tanks spawn them everywhere it becomes a nightmare.

I'd second the 1 turn effects.

Dont suppose anyone in OGC will have an major objections to that.

[El Capitan]

We need to write a formal rule to cover it that I can copy and paste into the rulebook. Any takers?