OGC CODEX Imperial Guard

[El Capitan]

Theres been enough discussion recently to actually address this problem fully, and that is, what to do with the Imperial Guard list.

About 18 months ago I put together an entire company consisting of:

Colonel command squad

A platoon
Command squad + commissar
2 Guard squads
1 heavy bolter heavy team [GPMG]
1 Leman Russ
1 Hellhound
1 Stormtrooper squad w/ Chimera

B platoon
Command squad + commissar
2 Guard squads
1 mortar heavy team
1 Leman Russ
1 Basilisk
1 sniper squad (cadians as ratlings, low WS & BS on account of they'd leg it!)

C platoon
Command squad + commissar
2 Guard squads
1 rocket launcher heavy team
2 Leman Russ
1 Griffon


Whilst this forms a depiction of a company I soon learned that it was not the way to go in games of 40k. Firstly the IG squads, as soon as they are equipped with anything give away 2 VPs and are typically not much more use than Gretchin [effectively same weapons, same BS, S, T & armour], except they are double the points. Other problems were the additional units, the snipers felt like a wasted slot compared to another Leman Russ, and the stormtroopers, well they roll out of their chimera and usually die instantly. They are essentially Guardsmen with +1 LD and boltguns.

A more productive way to play would be to take 3 heavy bolter teams (under 100 pts) and then tanks on top. This however creates an army that is no fun to play as, is awful to play against, kicks the game balance out the window and resembles nothing of what a guard army should look like.

So here are some proposed amendments for discussion;

> The 3 squad slots that make up a platoon, the first 2 should be compulsory guardsmen slots, with the 3rd being open to any other infantry choices.

> Guardsmen squads should be reduced to 80 points, allowing for some light equipment that would keep them in the 1 VP zone, (rather than the typical 'naked' squads that justify another tank) elsewhere, these points should be dispersed amongst the IG vehicles ie +10 pts for Hellhounds, Griffons & Basilisks and +15 for Leman Russ and +20 for the Demolisher.

> Upgrade Stormtroopers with carapace armour and +1 WS & BS to make them a proper veteran equivalent, with approproate points adjustments


further ideas?

I'm still annoyed that I put together a force that is more ornamental than useful for gaming.


Mikes notes [these are a compilation of working ideas based on the comments below, please ignore these and read other peoples things]

New points values - Guard squads at 80 points, [makes guardsmen 8 pts a model], force at least 2 standard squads per platoon, pos. vet sgt option [+1 WS, BS & I], counter balance increase leman russ at 115/220 points, Demolisher at 205, hellhound, griffon and Bas at 190. keep troop options points static. Stormtrooprs/Karskin at 150 points w/ carapace armour and +1 WS, BS & I.

[James 40K Champ ***]

The storm trooper ideas are fair enough.

the guard army is a bit of a funny one, and Im not all that familiar with how it plays, obviously it can be really really strong, but also quite crap. It seems to be quite difficult to make it kinda balanced. It either falls apart or blows you to shit.

[carcerdominus]

How about adding a Sergent upgrade to squads, pretty much every other army has this but IG gives the Sergent better stats, 1 wargear and higher LD which IG needs. Or adding the hotshot lasgun to the special weapons list.

[tturen]

That list isn't to bad. You can't trust mortars but Rattlings are possibly the best unit per point in the game. I know my IG army always was fielded in threes. That is one infantry, one heavy weapon team (I never took missile luanchers they simply have to much trouble taking out tanks) and one support choice. At 2000 points that meant two Lemans a Hellhound, Rattlings and at least three infantry and three heavy weapons teams. My command squads often had flamers with the ability to run and shoot.

The games were most often over by the bottom the second turn with the IG smashing nearly everything in site. I know I've often watched the IG played as well and they often get their armoured rear end handed to them.

I think the changes mentioned are fine and they encourage infantry that are equiped with useful weapons. The Storm Troopers in particular need the changes although I think they shouldn't count for or against the force organizations and the support slot. I do though have a problem with a Leman costing more than a Land Raider. Ouch!

[James 40K Champ ***]

I think Guard are just one of those all or nothing kinda things.

Obviously their armour is very powerful, but once you knock out a couple of tanks they are seriously crippled. Low stats also makes them seseptable to bad luck, and bad luck is compunded the more losses you take. An army like Marines can take a pounding and whats left is still sturdy.

[El Capitan]

I think the vet sgt upgrade would take from the role command squads and commisars play. I think gw got the command structure spot on, its just a shame the infantry are so poor, sure a lot of lasguns firing is effective but its very difficult to wield so many troops into a firing position. Maybe a vet sgt upgrade without a LD bonus though.

The hotshot lasgun is the same as a bolter, so its kinda already in the list.


As a point on the land raider, I'd rather have a Leman Russ as a battle tank, similar armour but the russ is much more maneouvrable and handy. LR's usually cant respond and get easily trapped. + as a chaos player I'd rather have the battle cannon, as I spend much time missing anyway. That said we dont allow allies in general so the points upping i was mentioning was more to compensate with the VP rejig of dropping the guardsmen squads. The aim being to put the points somewhere else.

[tturen]

Like I said I agree that a points change is a reasonable idea. Its even worth while if the Leman cost more than a Raider. In game terms though I find the Higher BS of the Raider to give it a big edge in lethality and it isn't going to miss then roll a hit/missfire and go boom either. Plus it can carry troops.

[James 40K Champ ***]

I think its fairly hard to compare a Le man and a raider, the le man has a different roll to a raider, you would be relying on a raider to win you a game, but you probably are relying heavily on your russ'