Trygon stats

[Adoni-Zedek]

Simon said:
"Ok guys, here's what I've ordered:

1 Tyranid Trygon
3 Tyranid Brood Nests"

I've seen the Trygon, and it looks a brute. Have you developed 2nd Ed rules for the overgrown termagant?

[Simon]

Actually it's an overgrown ravener, I'm working on rules for larger creatures at the moment and I was going to include the Trygon in there. Watch this space...

[tturen]

Excellent nesw then as one of our Nid players has asked about these models!

[Adoni-Zedek]

Forge World Oh, I had it confused with the Hierophant bio-titan. Yes, it definitely is an overgrown Ravener. It's quite a bit bigger than the Red Terror, isn't it. Well, I eagerly await your rules.

[zippysguitar]

lol one of my mates has got a trygon and was just about to make a post on it and ask for stats

[James 40K Champ ***]

That thing is possibly one of the coolest minatures going, well worthy of quite a nice set of rules.

At a guess looking at it, I would make it fast, lots of medium strength attacks, medium-high toughness and medium wounds.

Duno about any special rules, it could be possible to have it do somthing similar to tomb scorpions in warhammer, bursting out the ground, so long as its stats werent too hard.

[Adoni-Zedek]

For the Red Terror, I was contemplating letting it either infiltrate, or teleport (ignoring any teleport jammers) to represent it bursting out of the ground. I think I prefer the teleport, as it's a bit more random. No way for the beast to be absolutely certain where the enemy troops will walk...

When you say medium strength, are you thinking S6? Perhaps S7? With 6 limbs and a big mouth, I'd suggest 7 attacks. WS 6? WS 7? No ranged weapons, so perhaps BS0. I'd recommend against taking the Bio Plasma biomorph.

As far as speed is concerned, snakes really aren't all that fast. The racer, the fastest snake, has a top speed of about 4 miles per hour (6.4 kph). Granted, within striking distance, snakes are exceedingly fast, but when it comes to covering distance, you can outrun them at a brisk walk. but since GW decided snake-like Raveners are faster than hooved Tyranid warriors, we might as well continue with that. M9 is probably plenty fast. Probably have a high Initiative, being snake-like, and all, probably 7 or 8.

Toughness probably 6-7, with 5-7 wounds. Armor save of 3+ on 1D6. Give it up to two biomorphs.

So we're looking at a stat line something like this
M9 WS7 BS0 S6 T6 W7 I7 A7 LD10
Causes Terror, can teleport, 3+ armor save, 2 biomorphs

I'm thinking something in the greater daemon range, 250 - 300 points. Counts as a support choice?

[Simon]

You say medium-high on certain stats, what exactly do you mean. Bare in mind a carnifex is Toughness 8 to start with and that thing would actually smash it to bits. It isn't designed for a normal game of 40K, I'd put it in a special scenario and they're not supposed to be a medium hitter.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Yeah, I'd probably go with S8-9. S7 is pretty wimpy for something that size. Maybe a limitation that you can only take it in 2000+ point games.

[James 40K Champ ***]

oh well there ya go then, thats why I was thinkin of usin lower stats so it could be used in normal sized games more.

But fair enuf, make it a big beefy thing

[Simon]

As we have vehicle 'slots' in our armies, I put in that it basically would take up two slots rather than just one, and was aiming for a stat line to put it into the 500 points bracket.

GW have it as a huge creature, with a set of special rules for causing damage and stuff that I have adapted for the OGC edition, basically to sum up, you don't always cause multiple wounds on it.

The Stat Line I had in mind was something like

M 7
WS 7
BS 4 (is does have a gun, an adaption of the voltage field)
S 9
T 9
W 8
I 3 (though it is huge, its bulk would work against it)
A 7 (+1 if engaged by multiple opponents to factor in its tail sweep)
Ld 10

Synapse 12" (it does have this)
Terror (increased range)
Voltage field (can be fired once per turn 12" range, S6, -3)
Armour Save 5+ on 2D6

Basically, the thing would only be taking multiple wounds from weapons of S10 or more (see my titans rules when they are completed), and even then it is not automatic, it is likely to take half damage from a weapon. This is to represent the actual mass of the creature being so large that conventional concepts of wounds needing readjusting (unless you want it to have a really large wounds figure)

[Adoni-Zedek]

Wow! I didn't really think it was Titan size. If you follow the link in my earlier post, and look at painted pictures of the hierophant, you can see a picture of it next to a warhound. The Trygon is 5" high, which is only a little bigger than a bloodthirster, and roughly half the height of the Hierophant.

I would tend to allow a tail sweep only if it sacrifices all other attacks. It uses its tail for movement and stability, and if it's attacking with it, it will be too off-balance to use its other attacks.

If this thing fires off its voltage field, does it take a turn for it to regenerate? Or can it shoot with it and still use it to stop incoming attacks? Considering its 4th Ed origins, it probably can shoot without losing protection, as the other way is too 'complex' for 4th Ed.

[Simon]

5" in height is actually considerably larger than any model GW offer in store (other than the LOTR Mumakil). It is a decent amount larger than the new Hive Tyrant, which is a whopper anyway.

A Heirophant bio titan would theoretically cost around 1000 points, maybe more. These things compare to squiggoths etc rather than normal models, plus the tail sweep wouldn't lose stability, as it can keep it on the ground, and it is an engineered beast of destruction.

Await the full rules if you guys have got the patience, while I wait for the model.

[James 40K Champ ***]

oh thats pretty cool i was under the impression it was only about 2-3" high. thats cool

[zippysguitar]

seen this thing play in a couple of new versions on 40k and it owns everything and just isnt fun
teleporting it in could work with a double scatter or lower its movement, otherwise it will appear too close and/or charge anything within ur deployment zone and completely eradicate tactics

[Adoni-Zedek]

More Trygon Pics
It doesn't actually look that big in the pic with the guardsman. If you straighten him up, and then double his height, your looking at roughly Space Marine Dreadnought height, which is roughly level with the bottom of the top set of claws. Near as I can tell, this thing is roughly as tall as an eldar dreadnought, though substantially more massive. When you get it, I'd be very interested in a shot comparing the two, and perhaps a land raider or defiler if you have one available.

I'd still argue against a tail attack. This beast is very top-heavy, with barely an entire coil of tail on the ground. If it's going to be flailing the tail around, it will be too off-balance to properly use all its other attacks. If it wants to use its lower set of claws to brace itself, it could proabaly attack with it's tail and still use its remaining claws and its teeth, but then you're trading two attacks to get one. Just my thougts, though. Go ahead with whatever you feel is appropriate

[Simon]

Guess what came in the post yesterday...

I'm at work today but I built most of the beastie last night and it looks awesome, it dwarfs the new Hive Tyrant, let alone the old one which barely measures up at all. I'm amazed at the detail on the thing. I'll put some pics up on here when it is finished and fully painted

[tturen]

Thats an impressive beast! I agree the tail sweep looks like a tough attack to make given the model in question.

Looking forward to the new rules!

[El Capitan]

Post up a pic when its built

[Simon]

Revised stat line

M 8
WS 7
BS 4 (is does have a gun, an adaption of the voltage field)
S 9
T 8
W 7
I 3
A 7
Ld 10

Synapse 12" (it does have this)
Huge Creature
Voltage field (can be fired once per turn 12" range, S6, -3)
Armour Save 5+ on 2D6

May have 1 biomorph (not chosen from the main list)