slaanesh daemonette

[bot]

i've had a 2ed game on last sunday and used some daemonettes. because i do not possess chaos codex, i supported myself with battlebible.
some rules are very suspicious. like slanesh summoning points. bb says you get 1/2 of enemy's ld. strange.

and daemonettes. m4, ws6? that's what bb says.

can anyone check the codex and type some details.

i leave the same topic on the eff. feel free to double post as well

[LukeG]

That sounds about right, you'll need to grab Mike though as he has the clubs Codex Chaos.

[tturen]

The daemonettes are indeed M4, WS6.

Salaanesh does score 1/2 of the opponents leadership score in summoning points each time an enemy unit takes a leadership based test (Break, fear, terror,etc.).

[Adoni-Zedek]

Wow. I'd have thought they'd be M5 or M6. The new models certainly look fast. And they are probably a daemonic version of eldar, so I would expect M5. Oh well. I guess that's what Steeds of Slaanesh are for.

[tturen]

Yep, thats darn slow for a CC unit! I thought it was a typo in the BB...

[bot]

slow. but they're summoned, and don't have to travel few rounds to the enemies.

[LukeG]

They might not be brilliant if they're just tagged on as an afterthought, but Noisemarines work in 2 ways to create some gamewinning situations.
The ranged squad: Every unit hit by a blastmaster has to take a break test, leving you with tasty summoning points. Slaanesh terminators can take blastmasters as their heavy weapons giving you two move and fire blastmasters in an accurate hard to kill squad.
The combat squad: Deployed in the method of your choice, noisemarines can be given any combination of close combat weapons plus one weird mask for screaming your victims to death per squad. They then provide an unbreakable daemon nexus that are pretty handy in a fight. Just one power weapon each with the pistol additional attack and you can begin carving up. It helps they're even more reliable then imperial marines to get the job done and can't be cleared out with flamers as easily (normally flame rolls are brilliant for disrupting assaults as half the survivors run off screaming, but immune to psychology does a hell of a lot).

There are also the essentric tactics, although those are the basic and most reliable. A daemon possessed rhino can be a low budget nexus that you torpeado into the enemy lines when you have enough points to sumon an effective strike force, or you can use a Slaaneshi character with a jump pack to lead the daemons.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Actually Luke, move-or-fire weapons are still move-or-fire when carried by terminators. Yes, that means Heavy Flamers, Reaper Autocannons, and Assault cannons are all move AND fire, regardless of who's carrying them! (Not that any non-terminators can carry any of those but the Heavy Flamer)

Also, Only Raptors can take jumppacks, and they can't take any other marks of chaos. I suppose you could say they have the Mark of the Raptor, and can't take any others. Presumably the same would apply to Chaos Characters, who are not otherwise allowed jumppacks or anti-grav technology. That's how we've handled it in our group, anyway.

[James 40K Champ ***]

yeah that makes a lot of sence.

[LukeG]

adonizedek said:

Actually Luke, move-or-fire weapons are still move-or-fire when carried by terminators. Yes, that means Heavy Flamers, Reaper Autocannons, and Assault cannons are all move AND fire, regardless of who's carrying them! (Not that any non-terminators can carry any of those but the Heavy Flamer)

Also, Only Raptors can take jumppacks, and they can't take any other marks of chaos. I suppose you could say they have the Mark of the Raptor, and can't take any others. Presumably the same would apply to Chaos Characters, who are not otherwise allowed jumppacks or anti-grav technology. That's how we've handled it in our group, anyway.

Two big flaws there.
1: All heavy weapons are move or fire regardless, it's terminators that break the rule.

2: A Jump Pack is a generic 10 point wargear card, and even if it wasn't Chaos can have any Imperial only weaponry or wargear for +50% points cost.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Are you sure about that 1st one luke... ive not read the exact rules myself, but im inclined to belive what Adoni was saying.

[Adoni-Zedek]

The GW rules geeks clarified the Blastmaster Terminator in a FAQ. You don't have to do what they say, of course, but the official ruling is that Heavy Weapons encumber the user, and most, but not all, of them are move or fire, regardless of who's carying them. Charcters equipped with them also follow normal choosing-a-target rules, rather than being able to pick of whomever they choose. If you want, I'll look up the link, though I believe it's posted somewhere else on this forum.

The original daemonettes were much less sleek-looking, with huge lobster claws, and rather static poses. Entirely fitting for a move of 4. I wouldn't oppose a bump to 5 though as long as their price goes up as well. Maybe 3-5 points?

[LukeG]

The problem here is that an Assault Cannon is relegated to the same standing as a plasma gun, a weapon which can't saw a tank in half, can't influence a battle single handedly, isn't mounted on a dreadnought because the recoil would kill standard infantry, and isn't described as one of the most fearsome weapons on the battlefeild (both by players and the Wargear book).

When the rules freefall into the land of the unfinished and random (an annoyingly large amount of the time) I would normally rationalise it through the narrative and what it's supposed to do. Everything works within the boundaries of the rules of the 40k's fictional universe. A battle cannon, for example, would not be move AND fire if a guardsman had one just because they somehow got a hold of one. If a weapon isn't marked as move or fire it is because the people who made the core rules into the buggy piece of crap they skipped fixing to make kiddie editions didn't forsee a time it would ever be relevent.

[tturen]

In a manner of speaking terminators do break the rule for move or fire weapons. They do so however with customized weaponry designed for the suits themselves. Add on weapons like the Blastmaster can be taken but are not custom fitted or designed for terminators so they remain move or fire weapons. This also makes sense in that the Blastmaster would have massive recoil.

We resolved this issue by allowing Blastmaster armed terminators an option for a 'suspensor' at +5 or +10 points (I can't recall exactly). The suspensor helps with the mass and recoil of the weapon so it then becomes move and fire like other termi weapons.

[LukeG]

But wouldn't a suspensor be a part of the masses of equipment a terminator has narratively speaking but is only reflected in appreviated rules?

Any Inquisitor players have an answer? That has uberly comprehensive lists.

[El Capitan]

An assault cannon would have just as much recoil than a blast master. + assault cannon is also a lot more powerful for the same points, i dont really see the problem here. Chaos struggle enough when compared to their Imperial counterparts, all the shortfalls of chaos against marines is what has made me into a good player with any army.

I have noticed however that assault cannon and heavy flamer are not move or fire and in standard lists can only be given to terminators (beside vehicles)....any coincidence? + is the cyclone missile launcher move or fire? i cant remember.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Cyclone is Move AND Fire. I think the Blastmaster is the only weapon you can give to a Terminator that is move OR fire. Sisters of Battle can also take the heavy flamer. For them, it is also move AND fire, though they ARE encumbered by it (-1 WS) while terminators aren't.

[tturen]

Good question on the standard termi systems fit. The Blastmaster isn't a specialized termi weapon though.

The Blastmasters recoil should also rival that of battle cannon given its stats. The assault cannon should be much more manageable in terms of burst recoil. The BM also is a much better anti armour weapon with a battlecannon profile. It also will not spend half the game jammed like the 'jam' (assault)cannon. So point for point they work out pretty well.

In terms of codex power I think Chaos has an edge over Marines. In fact the Chaos codex can have a much longer beard and thats how its often played. Besides few units are as good as veteran marines who can form the core of a chaos army.

[LukeG]

Longer beard, less practicallity. The harder you specialise the harder you fall when you blunder into a match you can't handle. e.g. all out Slaanesh with max daemons vital to winning vs. Necrons. Congratulations, you just lost a quarter of your force to an army completely immune to psychology. You could beard out the Keeper of Secrets but you're still hobbled.
Marines are Marines. They're either cheaper for the comparable effect you need Marks to acheive or they're more reliable then the Chaos force. Targeters alone outclass the chaos counterpart, they just get all the fun toys to play with. It's the difference between a hammer and a space hopper. Just try putting up a shed with a space hopper, but it'll be a damn laugh trying and you can always dick around instead (provided it didn't explode in your face).
In fact, it's scary how close that analogy is...

[tturen]

Veterans alone can handle marines and their targeter is integrated into their profile of BS 5. Three man squads with two heavy weapons or special weapons that infiltrate offer great lethality and flexibility (WS5). Consider that you can put these guys anywhere you want after the marines have already set up. These guys are way better that marine vet squads and devastator squads.

Unmarked Terminators are a pretty good deal ( two attacks in CC!) as well such as three man squads with two reapers each. Add in a collared termi with a field whos all but impossible to kill, a few champions in the vet squads to summon daemons with and Abaddon with a full body guard ('free' teleportation). That gets pretty tough for Marines to deal with.

If you play with all the codex tricks marines tend to get beat.