ogc orks update comments

[bot]

i was reading ogc orks update with a fellow ork player and got some comments.
www.ogc.org.uk/Files/Rules/40k/HTML/CODEXOrksupdate/Rules.html

1. freebooters can use shuriken pistols? with their huge palms they cannot operate such small sophisticated device.

2. Warbike’s Autocannons 18" and -1 to hit at long range. ouch. is their ws3 and no targeter too good? why punish them even more?

3. the way we approached killakans is somewhat different. basicaly we consider kans as robots remotely controlled by mekaniak. we made 'remote kontrola' mek only wargear card (nice model with joystick and aerial and hit locations are way simpler. something close to wraith guard. of course when mek's dead kans either come to halt or roam and randomly.

4. and we keep koptas as a transport option for mekaniak only. it means that kopters are characters and don't have to form a squadron.

5. great great addition of uge choppa double handed weapons are just obvious in ork ranks. does anyone have idea how to model them? they could take any form: club, hammer. ogre from fantasy must have some.

6. grabba stick commonly available for runtherds would put them into much use. i can see my ork player uses a bunch of these guys to support any close combat mob. i smell cheddar.

7. squig hound sounds tricky. i'd extend the follow up move to 4'' just to make it more reliable.

[James 40K Champ ***]

All fair points.. but on 2.

Note that these changes do NOT decrease the effectivness of these awesome bikes if they are used effectivley and ORKY..

Ork bikes hould be flying forward at full speed with their riders screaming 'WARRGH!!!' - in which case they will be within short range.

The twin linked Autocannons are a devastating weapon, and having it sit at the rear of an ork army effectivley as artillery, is out of context, and far too good.

[tturen]

I see your point but I see ork bikes acting as arty as a player problem. Besides 18" is to short and the -1 is nasty for a low BS unit. Our Ork player has his bikes flying around if at all possible. I suppose ih he stuck them in the DZ as arty though we would have a problem with that!

[Simon]

18" is not a short range if you are playing the game correctly. The bikes are fast enough to move into range in the first turn (considering you are only 24" away to start with), they are still mega effective (as I discovered) seeing as the -1 penalty is only going to rarely come up if you are using them right.

It was put in to make them work like Ork bikes should, rather than how they do without the mods.

[tturen]

Take note:

The correct range for an auto.cannon is NOT 18". If you have to make up rules to force your players to play the 'correct' way then you have a player problem.

Now instead you have rule problem that turns common sense on its head. On his head is were your problem player should be instead.

[El Capitan]

We dont have to enforce that rule and its made no difference to how our ork players play. Its the same with the devastator restriction on White Scars, there supposed to be vastly vehcile based and so rules have basically been put in for the sake of it. However when ypu really think about it, what is the point of evere moving ork warbikes....Andy Chambers even quited this as an Ork tactic. The range reduction is only an issue if you wish to break it.


Also sorry for not responding to bot's comments. The Ork list is still being updated but ehres some answers...

1 - this was a provisional rule whilst attempting to work out how to make freebooters unique. It is likely to be removed

2 - the -1 is likely to be removed but bear in mind the power of this weapon and it has +1 to hit at short range

3 - hmmm, i have to disagree as killa kans are described as being small dreadnought perated by orks. Intersting idea though.

4 - kopta'swere added more for a bit of random madness. to ne honest a squad of them would be pretty rubbish

5 - theres was a sprue from gorkamorka for them, not sure if you can still get it though

6 - hmmmm, ill look into it and possibly tone it down

7 - okay ill take that on board...call it a 'rampant' rule

[Adoni-Zedek]

Okay, just to clarify:

The Warbikes' twin autocannons have a max range of 18". Enemy models firing on the bikes are at -1 to hit if the bike is in their weapon's long range. Did I get that right?

These two rules are at odds with each other. The first one encourages the orks to play up close and personal. The second tells them to hold back. Though with a range equal to that of a plasma pistol, perhaps the orks need the added protection it provides.

I think the 18" range is excessively short. It is still an autocannon, after all. A deathskull with an autocannon still gets the 72" range, right? So why doesn't the evil sunz biker? (I'm a big fan of having weapons work the same on and off the vehicle). If you must, reduce it to 40" (equal to a heavy bolter), but I wouldn't go any lower than that.

As for the obscurement rule, are models equipped with autosenses immune to it? They should be, as they're also immune to smoke grenades. Not blind grenades, but smoke grenades. Even IG are assumed to have visors capable of penetrating smoke. So it should only affect Tyranids, and other orks.

In regards to the Grabba Stick, keep in mind you can only have runtherds equal to the number of snakebite squads, plus 1. If you want to build your army around them sure, you can field a lot of them, but that limits your options in other ways. I don't see it being a huge problem.

[tturen]

You mean to say your Ork commanders never fire over 18" with warbikes? That would certainly change how I played them particularly with that -1 to hit at the 18"long range... That +1 to hit at short range would be critcal as the short range of these moded weapons rules would also be charge range for most of the Orks enemies.

Why move warbikes? Thats easy to find targets you can hit with your lousy BS! Then of course you are a tougher target as well so its a double bonus.

[LukeG]

-1 to hit with Autocannon's is too harsh.

Our range difference has one key problem at it's core, how the hell does a light bike use 2 when Space Marines need a tank to use 1? They are knock down versions to make big noise for big damage, but they aren't better then a Predator Tank.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Now wait a minute. Here's the actual rule, straight from the OGC Codex Update:

"Warbike’s Autocannons now have a maximum range of 18”. Also the vast pollution and dirt that these bikes throw out means that weapons suffer a –1 to hit penalty at long range, as the bikes enter short range the cloud of crap becomes a little more concentrated and so targeting is easier"

That sounds to me like the -1 to hit modifier applies to models shooting at the warbikes, not to the warbikes shooting at other targets. I admit it's not spelled right out, but that's how it reads to me. Especially since no long-range is defined for the autocannons, (which normally have long-range of 20"-72"). How can the autocannons be -1 to hit at longrange, when they have no long range? Did I get that right?

Again, however, most troops are immune to smoke grenades, and thus should be immune to the obscuring effects of the "cloud of crap" unless it includes electromagnetic noise as well as smoke and dirt. So only Orks, Tyranids, and probably Kroot and Grotesques should be affected by the -1 to hit at long range.

[El Capitan]

is supposed to be 0-12 short and 12-18 long.

i had the idea of the bikes pollutng ways burning the ork in the face and making it quite hard to see at range, also the cloud and npoise is basically a beacon to the bike

[Adoni-Zedek]

Okay. I guess that makes sense. You might think about making that more explicit in your wording, or perhaps have a weapon profile showing the modifiers.

[James 40K Champ ***]

The fact the weapons are mounted on the side of the vehicle and only fire straight forward would also make hitting targets are greater range more difficult.