Possessed marines

[Adoni-Zedek]

I was looking at your possessed marines, and I had a few questions. First, they seem rather potent for what they cost. 30 points for a marine, immune to psychology (better than shaken) that comes with a built-in refractor field that still allows him to hide? Plus Strength 5. If a standard chaos marine is 25 pts, I'd tack on 7 for the aura save (eldar pay 6 for refractor fields, but this allows you to hide), 5 for immune to psychology, and maybe 2 for the Str bump up, for a base cost of 39 points.

My real question, however, is whether they count as daemons when facing psychic powers and force weapons. (auto-wound, negates aura save). It's not specified in their description. Any thoughts?

[El Capitan]

As ever the points are provisional, as they are untested.

As for counting as a daemon...they are possessed and so should also have daemonic immunitites and invulnerabilties....on the other hand you could say that its a mental possession and the marines are still fully physical, this approach seems for interesting in character

[bot]

i have more comments on chaos update
1. 'rune' gift is hilarious. so like i must pump four successful lascannon shots into that lord monstrosity. lords are already almost indestructible. jeez

2. Feel no Pain – 10 pts – Model has a 4+ unmodified save against hits at less than
double the models Toughness
how does feeling no pain relates to 4+ unsave for lascan in your face shot? after having half of your body evaporated, feeling pain is not much issue. :/

3. Manreaper – 25 pts - Adds +2 to bearers strength, kills mortal creatures outright
if it wounds regardless of armour, counts as a Daemon Weapon and a Double
Handed Weapon
c'mon, is it a common item for nurgle champions?

4. mischievousness of nurglins. i think they should take hold of objectives as they present clear danger. first they're daemons, second their filthy and contagious - spread nurgle's rot which is terrifying disease. dumb, chicken-shit snotlings are nowhere close to nurglins.

so much for now. over.

[El Capitan]

lookng at the possessed marines points they do need to be bumped up....a lot!

in repsonse to bot...
1. fair point - i was jsut trying to convertt the rules from 4th ed. any suggestions on how to make it better or just scarp it all together. the idea of rune mixed with praise of khorne and khornate terminator armour is jsut silly

2. - againt this was an attempt at a convwersion. can easilly eb changed to hits at same toughness or less give the save

3 - remove the ignore armour saves rule. Its essantiually a double handed plaguesword then.

4 - I really cant imagin nurglings being able to capture the information disks in 'the fallen angel' etc ... sure they can deny objectives but actually securing them is another thing...though id like to heere other peoples opinions on this


more opinions/criticisms please!!!!!

[Simon]

Feel no pain might work better if it were more like the death company rule: The model gains an extra wound but counts as dead at the end of the game if he loses his initial 3 wounds.

Nurglings: In my opinion, the Nurglings themselves could not achieve a mission objective. They are far too mischevious to bother with it.

[James 40K Champ ***]

lol - flame thread!

Urm, yeah bump up the possesed mariens, thats a really wicked troop choice, espech for chaos!
39 sound around about the right mark.

[Adoni-Zedek]

So do possessed and Obliterators count as daemons when being attacked with force weapons and psychic powers? (Autowound by force weapons, daemonic aura save negated)

[El Capitan]

im still undecided but as they are actually physical entities just knock off the daemonic aura, they should take damage as normal for mortal models


...confusion

[Adoni-Zedek]

Okay, that makes sense of a sort. I have to say I don't think Nurglings are intelligent enough to hold an objective. Deny, certainly, but not hold.

One last question. Can possessed and obliterators take a mark of Chaos? I personally don't see any reason why not, but I just wanted to see what the 'official' position was.

Also (yes, I lied), does the Talons mutation combine with any assault weapons chosen? If I equip my possessed with a chainsword, or a power axe, does he still autowound on a 6 to hit, or does that only apply to his 'natural' weapons?

[Simon]

I'm not sure if Obliterators should be able to. A parallel can be drawn to the Raptors. They follow their own 'cult' as it were and don't dedicate themselves to any god, otherwise it would play havoc. Possessed are more likely to be dedicated to a single god.

[LukeG]

I agree with Simon (never thought I'd say THAT!), Possessed Marines are possessed by something, if it's a Bloodletter the possession will take on a Khornate aspect.

And daemonic strengths and weaknesses make sense. If it was purely mental possession then it would only be something pathetic like Frenzy and Immune to Psychology. Instead they get all sorts of powers. Besides that, if the Daemon they were physically dependant on was exorcised then funny things would happen along the lines of all their mutated vital organs would shut down, their mind would sanp, heart explode, maybe the Daemon would drag it's soul back to the warp with it etc.
Force weapons and psychic powers bad for the possessed!

[Adoni-Zedek]

I also think the raptor pack needs a cost bump too. 37 pts is 7 more than a veteran squad. They get jumppacks, (5 pts min), cause fear (costs 4 points for possessed marines), and get a hit-and-run attack with no chance of retaliation. That's got to be worth at least 5 points. Not even jetbikes get that. I'd consider dropping the hit-and-run, unless you want to give it to swooping hawks (faster and more maneuverable than jumppacks), the dark eldar scourges, serephim, and marine jumppackers. Perhaps ork stormboyz as well. I'd also make it match the bike-type hit-and-run, where both sides get to strike one blow, using standard close combat resolution rules (for OGC that's Mordheim style).

[James 40K Champ ***]

dropping it sounds sensible to me

[Adoni-Zedek]

Still waiting on the ruling regarding the Talons mutation combining (or not) with assault weapons....

[tturen]

Raptors combined with vet. infiltrators just sounds broken. What type of limits are placed on them anyway? The cost would need to be brutal as well as they represent a huge tactical boost for Chaos particularly with those special rules. I must agree though that the hit and run attack should be dropped for them. Jet pack movement is far to predictable/innacurate for the attack.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Oh, I forgot that vets can infiltrate! I don't believe the raptors have that ability. I guess you could subtract that bit from the cost, but I've always felt that the chaos vets seemed to get it for free. I've always felt that jumppacks were too big and bulky to infiltrate with anyway. Unless you're Tau, wearing a stealth suit.

They are also limited to one squad of 3-5 raptors.

[tturen]

Well one small squad of 3-5 then woudn't cause to many issues. I was concerned about the ability of multiple Vets to work together with multiple Raptor squads. Nasty combo as it puts lots of hard as nails troops in forward positions and then allows assualt troops to advance in rapid support.

[Adoni-Zedek]

Are there any options for possessed/obliterator/raptor champions? I can't really see the possessed getting it, as they are taking a different route to daemonhood (not trying for daemon prince status, just regular daemon). The thought of obliterator champions makes me wince (BS7 lascannon, but that's really no worse than a space marine dreadnought), but I would assume their wargear options would be limited to non-weapon items, so the same weapons that kill obliterators would kill obliterator champions just about as easily. Raptor champions seem much more likely and versatile, however, as long as they are not allowed to take a mark of Chaos.

So what would be some appropriate "Mark of Chaos" costs for the Raptor "Mark" and the Obliterator "Mark"?

Do possessed/obliterators count as having a mark of chaos for the purpose of banishing daemonically possessed vehicles? I would say Raptors don't but not sure about the others. They are half daemons themselves, after all....