Striking Scorpions VS Howling Banshee's

[El Capitan]

I have heard many times that theres absolutely no point in Striking Scorpions as they arer jsut 1 point cheaper than Banshee's. SO Id thought i'd set the record straight.

There are 2 marked differences between the 2, first up is the actual equppings. The mandiblasters, shurkien pistol and chainsoiwrd combination mean that the scorpions are going to be hitting 2-3 times, and ios perfect for taking on light infantry. If the mandiblasters hit and kil, the scorpions can also go beyond and get someone else.
Banshee's however have power swords and depend on pretty much a single auto hitting str. 5 -3 save strike but their lesser armour means they'll recoil agaisnt mass infantry.

The second difference is that scorpions have a 3+ save whioch thems pretty good at surviving mass ifnantry attacks as they tear through the ranks. Banshee's however havew a 4+ save whoch is unliekly to save them agaisnt mass fire, instead they rely on the M 6 to get that -1 to hit modifier whilst they track their prey.

Banshee's are an excellent heavy unit assiantion team whereas scorpions are much better suited to taking on lerger and more lihtly armoured numbers. The 1 point cost differenc emeans you cans impyl have some units ready on the sidelines and swap the squad depending on the army.
Banshee's ideal agaisnt -> Marines, Chaos, Sisters of Battle, Tau?
Scorpions -> Orks, Tryandis, Imperial Guard, Eldar, Dark Eldar


Hopefully that shows that their is a diff. between the two units. Also the new banshees models will not be upgraded to0 have shurkien psitols as this woukld annhilate the balance! Keep them with their laspoistols as a simple firing weapon should the situation ocur...

[James 40K Champ ***]

be told pointy heads!

note: neither unit is good against necrons achording to mike!! muhahahahahaha!!

(probably cos you have warp spiders, heavy weapon dudes and swooping hawkes instead

[LukeG]

Hahahahahaha!
I2 ar-ar Necron CRUNCH!!!

[James 40K Champ ***]

what did luke just say?

hes less comprehendable in type than speech

[Adoni-Zedek]

Luke just said that the best way to kill necrons is to run them over with your rhino. That goes for the little scarabs, too. With initiative 2, they just can't get out of the way in time. And a Str 7 rhino hit is enough to wound them relatively easily. Khorne Rhino with the destroyer is even better (Str 10).

Note to self: in next fight with Necrons, bring three rhinos...

Thanks for the comparison between scorpions and banshees. It really helps clarify their roles for me. I may need to pick up some scorpions now, for fighting orks. Although with T4 Orks, maybe banshees are still better with their S5 powerswords. Hmmm. definately scorpions against IG though.

[James 40K Champ ***]

True that, though how long will a rhino last against all those lovely metal eating weapons.

And theres the fact that vehicles either stop or move at half speed from disruption.
And id like to see you run over scarabs as the sit on the back of your rhino munching away.

OK in theory, but I would never be scared by a rhino, easy to counter.

[James 40K Champ ***]

People have been known to park rhinos ontop of my downed warriors before aswell to stop them repairing! lmao

[bot]

LOL x 3

[Adoni-Zedek]

Now I've never actually fought Necrons, so this is all from a hear-say perspective.

If you get scarabs on your vehicles, drive them back to you lines, so the necrons can't terget them, and the scarabs jump off to go latch on to other vehicles.

Certainly easier said than done, as vehicles go slower when near necrons. i assume this applies to scarabs as well?

Really, unless you've got naturally strong models, Necrons are probably best taken down from afar. Do melta bombs work against necrons? The vehicular Necrons, I mean. As skimmers, I guess they're pretty hard to engage in close combat, but I guess you could slap them on the Tomb Spiders anyway...

Probably your best bet is three tarantulas with twin-linked heavy bolters. At S5, they'll take the necrons down better and faster than just about anything else. keeping them down is something else, of course....

[Charly]

heavy bolters work very well yeah, i took a devastator squad with 4 in against them last time i played, managed to hold open the mechanised jaw that was surrounding my army. and just about pulled off a win

[James 40K Champ ***]

As a necron player, I generaly place my scarabs on a vehicle the same turn I will be shooting at it, so that extra -3 to armour per scarab means that shooting a few destroyers, and maybe a squad at a vehicle pretty much always finishes it off. And ill be free to move any remaining scarabs the next turn.

People dont really have time to do anything about scarabs once they are uppon you.

Charly used a good strat against me, my scarabs were closing in on his army, then suddenly his tanks bolted off together, my scarabs couldnt really chase them, and if they did he could keep running, so I had to just drop them on his army for the disruption.

Meaning he had (i think) 2 pred inihilators roaming free from my scarbs. Which proved a problem lol.



As destoryers are skimmers, I dont really find problems targeting what I want with them, I just zip over to it. A heavy tank, with scarabs on it hasnt got a chance.

Spose melta bombs could work in combat with a destroyer (if you hit it on a 6 as it flys past).
But not tombs spiders, all close combat weapons stop working in combat with necrons.

Heavy bolters could work, but against me, id have everything as covered as I could, and if you had 3 tarantulas, you wont have much armour, and so my destroyers are likely to find themselfs flying right upto the heavy bolters and blasting them to bits, any that survive will be on -1 to hit for every one of the 5 destroyers within 6".
So although heavy bolters can be nice, once they start missing, thats it really.


When facing necrons, I think you need to plan ahead, Vehicles with nice weaponry can be nice, but you pretty much have to expect them to be taken out. Things like heavy bolters might do the trick, but only for a turn or two (while Id advance in cover), after that, ill make sure there are plenty of necrons within range to make them virtually unhittable.
You can plan to deal Necs a devastating blow in turn one, which can sometimes undo the necron players entire game. But once they start closing, necrons really are solid and dependable in everyway, and casualties lost early on, of course have a few chance to get back in the game.

[Adoni-Zedek]

While meltabombs are classified as close combat weapons, I'd argue they'd still work, as they're not really generating a powerfield of any type. It's more like wrapping a grenade in double-sided tape, and sticking it on the bad guy. If a missile launcher works against necrons, a melta bomb should as well.

However, Tomb Spiders are safe, if for no other reason than that they don't have an armor value.

And as tarantulas with twin-linked heavy bolters are only 50 points, you could take 3 for 150 points, and probably only one support slot. That includes a crew of one servitor. Plus they can move 4 inches and still fire. That won't significanlty cut down on heavy armor, maybe by one vehicle.

Sorry about the off-topic hijacking, Mike. I'll blame it all on Luke! ;D

I would almost think that Scorpions would be better against Tau, as they only have a 4+ save, and they're relatively cheap, so you'll be facing large numbers of them. They have next to no combat ability, so chainswords ought to be plenty. A pity aspect squads can't be more than 7 strong (8 including the exarch).

Banshees are only effective when they charge, so they need to wipe out or break their target unit on the turn they hit it. Otherwise they will be countercharged, and they really can't sustain that. Scorpions have mandiblasters that can eliminate charging enemies before they have a chance to attack, and so are better against crowds, and can survive in prolonged combats. Definately the way to go against tyranids, where the opponent will almost always get the charge. perhaps keep a squad of Banshees close to hit his genestealers before they hit your scorpions.

[Adoni-Zedek]

While shuriken pistols are better that laspistols, they're not decisively so. They're actually worse than bolt pistols. They're bot S4, -1 Sv weapons, but the Shuriken pistol only gets a 12" range, while the bolt pistol (and the laspistol) has a 16" range. So upgrading banshees to shuriken pistols wouldn't really be too terribly unbalancing. I still agree with keeping the laspistols, though.

[El Capitan]

The mnain thing with keeping the laspistols is to keep the fine balance with the scorpions

[Adoni-Zedek]

Good point. We really don't want to blur their roles at all. They currently have rather distinct roles, and once you start blurring that, there's no point in having two different aspects.

Oh the super-specialized eldar. Makes them hard to use properly, but very effective when they are.

[El Capitan]

Shuriken pistol has a -2 save!

[Adoni-Zedek]

Why so it does! I thought I remembered it being only -1, along with no sus-fire dice.

As far as roles go, the shuriken pistol is more of a high-armor penetrating weapon, rather like a powersword, and perhaps fitting more with the banshee's defined role. The laspistol on the other hand, with it's low save mod, almost fits better with the scorpions, at least as we've defined their roles in this thread. Odd that the ranged weapons are the reverse of the close combat ones.

On the otherhand, that means each Aspect has fair penetrating power in close combat, as the scorpions can use their swords to parry, and their pistols to attack. So maybe it works out after all....