Axes!

[LukeG]

The problem is that swords, for identical points cost, have a parry and do more then axes. There doesn't really seem to be a point in basic axes beyond some models have them and are too expensive to replace.
I was wondering whether to boost axes, or reduce basic swords.
Note: The first option is the popular 'do nothing'.

[LukeG]

This a case of simplify or enhance. If we take the game too far either way we shoot ourselves in the foot, but I think broad specifications would be interesting in the 1 point bracket. I there is interest in diversity, I have an idea of making 4 broad brackets for these basic weapons. This first though, as lists actually say;
sword or axe
meaning you can have a superior weapon for the same price with no drawback.

[LukeG]

I think that the bonus penetration one is the most interesting, and it will only have a specialised impact on the game. To clarify this would include;
Buildings
Doors
Other scenery (+trees, funnily enough for an axe)
It would give the Orks some extra character. Think of all of Adam's axe weilding Goffs, with this they would be raiders that can smash down doors.
Just my thoughts.

[El Capitan]

Id say implement the doube handed rule. Up the strength but users always strike last except when charging. Not sure why an axe would give +D6 penetration Vs concrete, maybe a pile of logs....but this is the 41st Millenium!

[LukeG]

The bonus penetration is valid. It's an extra heavy whack that is negligable in combat but can be brought to bear against stuff that's just lying there. Don't disagree with you though, just making a case for something quirky.

[El Capitan]

Yes but that type of logic can apply to a lot of things. Including swords, hack a piece of stone with a sword or an axe and similar things happen.
I am much more for simply aplying the exisitng axe, its a proven mechanic. Then again its like having a +1 stremgth bonus when charging.....which is quite expensive in fantasy....

[Simon]

I think I'd go for the bonus Armour Penetration, due to the fact that there's no reason that any other weapon couldn't be used 2 handed, but axes are really useful for breaking things, due to the fact that the majority of the weigth of the thing is in the head. I'm not sure it should be a D6 though, maybe a d4...

[caca]

hi, i'm from eastern fringe (and late heart of heresy). my first post. i'm impressed by dedication and execution:)

i'd leave a primitive axe as it is. giving him better strength would make him deadlier than sword. and looking at these two weapons, i see pretty nasty tools, made of metal, meant to damage living tissue, by cutting, piercing, smashing. i'm sure that skillful user can disembowel me with sword in as much horrible way as with an axe.
Double handed swords and halberds give +2 S, right?

what really bothers me is power axe or its two handed version - power halberd. these two weapons are more expensive than power sword. they shouldn't be as they are more or less equal or worse (in case of axe). anyway that's how we changed it:

power sword remains as it is.
power axe has modifier -3.
power halberd requires two hands and offers handy d12 to penetration. no changes here.

on top of that 6 points for everything seems ok.

[LukeG]

Welcome aboard caca! You can keep posting as a guest, but I recommend registering for no other reason then getting access to the board skins
The random difference between Power Sword and Power Axe does bother me. Your idea of an extra sub category is sound with the one overriding exception here, swords can still parry making equal cost 'vanilla' weapons void.
More to ponder, you've set me off on power axes now!
My note to people suffering a Power Axe character model like a techmarine, don't saw it off for the sword. Give them Frenzon and you can run around swinging it with both hands and still have two attacks. Frenzy is the only time a sword is worthless so you might as well use it to your advantage.

[bot]

come you all to eastern fringe! i can't log in, everything's weird here...
shit
anyway:
quote: Give them Frenzon and you can run around swinging it with both hands and still have two attacks.

yeah, of course but i see no reason why power axe/halberd should be more expensive than power sword.
and i retreat from -3 for power axes. power axes -2 is ok

[LukeG]

The problem is a power sword gets -3 AND the parry rule. Actually, that just gave me a brainwave.
BOTH cost 6 points.
Power Sword keeps the parry, becomes -2
Power Axe gets the -3 modifier.
Power Halberd becomes generic replacement for double handed power axe.
Sounds good, needs more arguing (sorry, discussing

[bot]

i think there's a reason in power sword having better save mod than axe. look:
sword can chop and stab. (two otions of cutting into armor)
axe only chops.
?

[Simon]

When you actually break it down into the strength bonus... You are also getting a mega boost to armour penetration vs. vehicles (d6 + d12 + 6) as opposed to the power sword (2d6 + 5)...

I think that balances out the points

[LukeG]

Only when used with two hands, making it a Hero only weapon. combat squads might as well not take it when there is a cheaper, more powerful option.
And axes do more damage then swords, traditional better against armoured opponants due to the weight of them. A sword is nice and fancy, but axes send heads rolling.

[bot]

yeah. but making them at least equal in cost with power swords is reasonable, isn't it?

[LukeG]

Definately. At the moment they cost more for less.

[El Capitan]

After looking at the profiles, the power axe really is little more than a more expensive power sword. Me and Luke decided that going for extra - modifer for 2 hands and a bonus for armour penetration and damage seemed fair (same stats for a power halberd). It may be a lot more powerful but is handicapped by the double handed rule.
The one hand is still a power sword with worse mod and no parry but the option is there if you want to up the users attacks. (this fits in with boits point that a power sword in the single handed context has more uses)

[James 40K Champ ***]

This debate opened up again recently, so are we going to adopt the mordheim axe rule 'biting'

i.e. all axes gain and extra -1 to armour penetration.. I think that makes sence.

[Adoni-Zedek]

My solution to the power weapon problem is to give the Power Axe a +1 strength bump to both single and two-handed stat lines. For 7 points you get a S6 weapon that you can boost to S7 with both hands. For 6 points you get a S5 weapon that lets you parry.

I like the mordheim solution to the basic axe question as well.

[Simon]

adonizedek said:

My solution to the power weapon problem is to give the Power Axe a +1 strength bump to both single and two-handed stat lines. For 7 points you get a S6 weapon that you can boost to S7 with both hands. For 6 points you get a S5 weapon that lets you parry.

Why do people hate the power axe? It's a weapon that everyone forgets can be easily used to bust open tanks. Why does nobody acknowledge this ability as actually worth something? The power axe is actually fine as it is.