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Post by Yarlen Fireblade on Nov 1, 2006 5:35:11 GMT 1
Not at all actually we most definately play with more terrain than your average 2nd edition group, but if you've just cluttered the entire table with terrain it's completely pointless to take vehicles other than skimmers there is a cutoff point.
And we always have nice long corridors of fire at some point on the table otherwise the range advantage of heavy weapons is also pointless.
Well that's the thing isn't it, if you move a vehicle closer to terrain that might have some jump troops or swooping hawks behind it, no amount of infantry is going to save the tank, it's toast and even if you manage to wipeout the unit in your next turn of shooting you're still down a tank and that's definately more important.
Sure you can, in fact you probably don't realize this but point for point Imperial Guardsmen with lasguns are superior to Space Marines.
Besides i no longer play 2nd edition, myabe like 12 years ago i would have been but the games way too flawed these days to be any fun.
And no that doesn't mean i play 3rd or 4th ed.
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Post by tturen on Nov 1, 2006 7:24:53 GMT 1
I played IG for years and I laughed when laz cans pinged the turret. The turret armour is simply to heavy as Yarlen pointed out. Not even a Russ turret should be all but immune to laz can hits. We also play on boards much like Yarlen suggests and even on these cluttered boards my Lemans were pillboxes until the nearby threats to them were removed. Often that was a simple matter of dropping two tanks in tandem. The pair often had little trouble destroying any threat to them. If they ever moved under threat they did so slowly and under infantry escort. I differ here though from Yarlen in that the escort I think is tough to beat with h2h troops who have to engage the closest model first. Such escorts saved my armour on many occasions (Although they most often defended stationary tanks!) Now my twin Predators in my Wolf army are in constant motion but again often in tandem. Their speed simply means more than their armour and my Wolves have an easier time supporting them in more advanced positions. Same table, different army/units, different tactics. One of the first games I ever played I sent a squad of Ultra Marines against three squads of IG. That was also the last time I made such an attempt.  |
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Post by El Capitan on Nov 1, 2006 12:08:55 GMT 1
On the subject of bikes, ive torn up entire armies (charly will remember thge riders of apocalypse that removed over 20 marines) and won games just off a small contingent of bikes (4). Keeping them back and suddenly deploying 20" in a flank attack with special weapons and rapid firing bolters can cause mass damage, as it consequently has over and over.
i only got into the idea of reducing the bike points when people had only used them in frontal assaults and theyd been destroyed easilly. However when you think on it, bikes are unique and offer a unique tactical opportunity thats very destrucitve.
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Post by LukeG on Nov 20, 2006 16:02:13 GMT 1
What was this thread about again? It just became messy.
Marine tanks are manouverable, Guard tanks are slow. They're designed to have that one in whatever chance of nigh invulnerability because they've already paid for it. A Leman Russ fights head to head, a Predator comes screaching around the flank to arse rape you. You CANNOT expect a one shot, one kill approach to heavy weapons. The Predator Anhillator is the Marines standard for tank to tank warfare, it has 4 lascannons. Learn from this.
I once fired 3 Multi Meltas at one target and, because of how they were packed in, the first shot rolled a 1, hit misfired, and took out all the multi meltas. THIS CAN HAPPEN. Your army needs a redundency factor, just go off the 'one spare' philosophy. You should set out an objective that allows you to overcommit one resource per objective per turn MINIMUM. Anything else is a gamblers game. Instead of one shot to one target you need to hit the biggest threat available then use the scenery to minimise the response or a high redundency factor such as Ork army numbers.
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Post by James 40K Champ *** on Nov 20, 2006 23:22:05 GMT 1
bloody hell, was that almost tactics I heard commin from luke?  lol, only kiddin. 'the first shot rolled a 1, hit misfired, and took out all the multi meltas.' ....only luke |
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Post by tturen on Nov 21, 2006 3:11:47 GMT 1
Hey, those tactics sound familiar! In fact thats how I play my Wolves and IG armour. My twin Predators operate as a high mobility tandem. My IG's Russes as pill boxes. The basic tactic of concentrating fire on key threats is also a component in offensive operations across all armies.
If it helps I can say that weapons failure is not suffered by Luke alone. You see our other Wolves player once optioned up his Speeder with an expensive assualt cannon/Melta combo. It rose and fired only to suffer a hit/missfire result and go down in flames. Next time out it was hit/missfire and down in flames again. One of the last times we saw the ol speeder after that. Then of course the same player had his Orks in command of the battlefield and a looted Russ smashing all comers. My ally and I had nothing left that could touch it. You guessed it though, hit/missfire and away with the Russ. It cost him that game.
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Post by James 40K Champ *** on Nov 21, 2006 12:26:00 GMT 1
True, im not saying hit misfires dont happen.. but its always a foolish move to group up 3 heavy weapons (especially multimeltas) so they fit under one 2" blast.
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Post by LukeG on Nov 21, 2006 14:11:30 GMT 1
It was the only fireline I could get! And one was only grazed but got sucked in anyway Best was the CTF Meltdown we did were we were all packed into small bases, and my first shot of the game was with the Whirlwind. Which hit misfired. Which blew up, taking most of my army with it because of how every player was packed into a base. I hit the Whirlwind with a hammer and eventually made my own marine chapter which doesn't use any super long ranged technology. The evolution of a single hit missfire gentlemen. |
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Post by James 40K Champ *** on Nov 21, 2006 14:16:29 GMT 1
LOL, I remember in one of the meltdowns when one of my destroyers got destroyed, flew the entire length of the table out of control, then landed on Mark's space marien captain killing him outright.
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bot
Cbayghan
Posts: 115
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Post by bot on Nov 22, 2006 9:58:32 GMT 1
about taking aimed shots at vehicles. but now things have moved to tanks, armour and some tactics. cool.
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Post by LukeG on Nov 27, 2006 13:05:44 GMT 1
Oh yeah...
Random at range works well enough. Only the Imperial dreadnought with Lascannons then has the accuracy to alter ranged hits. Aimed shots already exist in the main rules, as any gun can be used in clase combat against a vehicle (bear in mind you cannot charge with a heavy weapon) allowing point blank auto hits against a chosen location, the one saving grace of a meltagun.
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