Codex Necrons Questions

[tturen]

Some questionms on the Necron Codex as we now have a Necron army player in our group:

In the OGC Necrontyr Codex is there a particular reason that the General and the Lord have the same BS ans WS as regular Necrons? This seems rather odd given their cost as well.

Do Necron vehicles have targeters?

Do Scarab Swarms have the same special armour eating rules and such as regular scarabs?

Is the Necron on a Destroyer destroyed when the vehicle damage result is a 5 or a 6? If not what type of damage does he take?

Could you provide an example of how the Monoliths ability to teleport troops works?

The Monoliths fax says it deducts "D6 from all penetrating hits", does this mean that the Necron player rolls a D6 and subtracts it from any hits that roll high enough to penetrate? (This seems obvious but I just wanted to be sure. ) Nasty ability of course.

Are there any changes that need to be made to play this codex useing the original 2nd Ed rule set? (IE non-OGC rules.)

[James 40K Champ ***]

tturen said:

Some questionms on the Necron Codex as we now have a Necron army player in our group:

1. In the OGC Necrontyr Codex is there a particular reason that the General and the Lord have the same BS ans WS as regular Necrons? This seems rather odd given their cost as well.

2. Do Necron vehicles have targeters?

3. Do Scarab Swarms have the same special armour eating rules and such as regular scarabs?

4. Is the Necron on a Destroyer destroyed when the vehicle damage result is a 5 or a 6? If not what type of damage does he take?

5. Could you provide an example of how the Monoliths ability to teleport troops works?

6. The Monoliths fax says it deducts "D6 from all penetrating hits", does this mean that the Necron player rolls a D6 and subtracts it from any hits that roll high enough to penetrate? (This seems obvious but I just wanted to be sure. ) Nasty ability of course.

7. Are there any changes that need to be made to play this codex useing the original 2nd Ed rule set? (IE non-OGC rules.)

1. Necron generals have the stats which were released when necrons were still 2nd Ed. The reason for this being they are all automatons and limited by their machine form.

2. Necron vehicles do not have targeters (quite a disadvantage). Mainly encourges you to use them properlly and get up close (1+ in 6" short).

3. Scarab swarms as we have made them do not have any disruption affects or armour stripping abilities, they are simply an annoyance for the enemy, little else. We only made them because the models were available, but in 3rd, swarms replaced the propper scarabs. (I never use swarms)

4. Good point, maybe he should take a hit, but we have always played hes dead, leave the destoryer hulk on, and if he rolls a 6 to repair, bob's his uncle.

5. Fuck the monolith, its propper silly, we wouldnt dream of using it. it completly contradicts how 2nd Ed plays. IF you want to use it in your games, try making your own rules for it as we havnt play tested it, but I can imagine it is too powerful.

6. Again unplay tested, but I take that to basically give the monolith +D6 armour each time it gets shot at.

7. Should not be too much problem using it. There unboubtably will be some issues, but that is for you to play test and amend as you see fit to suit how you play.

One point I can think of is that we use the Warhammer fantasy character restrictions, i.e 1 Lord for 2k points. and 3 heros for 2k points.
And we changed scarabs from being in the squads section to the characters section. As in the squads section they are worth 1 victory point each, and in the characters (being under 50 points) they are worth zero VPs.
I used to use about 8, which gave away masses of points and made a generally boring game, as the enemy could hardly do anything (and neither could I).
Now with characters restrictons, Im limited to 3 scarabs (and a necron lord), which works out supprisingly well and provides nice, fun and balanced games.

[Adoni-Zedek]

The monolith will definately need work. 185 pts for a model with armor from 21-26 and 23-28, with 4 gauss projectors and 1 particle whip is definately underpriced. I've currently got it priced at 275 pts, but that may need to be changed. Here's my version of it (based on the OGC version--Thanks, guys!), which has not yet been playtested:

(Sorry about the spacing. The web page eliminates 'extra' spaces for whatever reason. Probably has a good reason for that, but it's heck on formatted tables)

Necron Monolith
275 points
Hovers (6¨ speed, may move in any direction without turning, does not use skimmer out-of-control table). The Monolith has BS 4 and is armed with a Particle Whip with a 360 arc of fire and 4 Gauss Projectors each with a 180 arc of fire to each corner. May not make use of Vehicle Cards. Does not generate a disruption field.

Living Metal: May reduce the penetration of all incoming hits by D6, roll each time the Monolith is hit
Teleport: At the beginning of the Necron player's turn, one infantry squad or model may be teleported from any point on the board to exit the portal in the front of the monolith. This is done before charges are declared.


Ram
Str Dmg Save Mod
8 D12 -5

Armor
D6 Location Front Side/Rear
1 Grav Engines 20 20
2-4 Hull 22 22
5 Gauss Projectors 18 18
6 Power Core 17 17

D6 Grav Engines Damage Table
1 May not move next turn.
2 Moves out of control next turn
3-4 May only move D3" per turn.
5-6 Grav Engines cut out and the monolith crashes to the ground. On a 4+ on a D6 roll on the hull damage table

D6 Hull Damage Table
1 The teleport portal is damaged, and only functions on a On a 4+ on a D6
2 Teleport portal is destroyed
3-4 Control Matrix is damaged, must roll a 4+ on a D6 each turn to move or fire
5 Monolith structure is severely damaged, and the monolith collapses in on itself, effectively destroyed
6 Power Coils explode, destroying the Monolith. All models within 3" take D6 S10 hits with a -3 save modifier.

D6 Weapons Damage Table (nearest turret)
1 Gauss Projector is damaged, only functions on a On a 4+ on a D6
2-5 Gauss Projecter is destroyed
6 Gauss Projector is destroyed, roll on Hull damage table.

D6 Power Core Damage Table
1 May no longer fire Particle Whip.
2-3 Crystal Core is cracked, all power ceases for one turn. Monolith crashes as 5-6 on Grav Engine table. At beginning of each Necron turn the monolith regains power on a 4+
4 Crystal Core ruptures, and the Monolith crashes to the ground, effectively destroyed
5 Crystal Core collapses, teleporting and trapping all necrons within D3 inside the monolith. Monolith crashes to the ground, effectively destroyed
6 Crystal Core explodes. The monolith is destroyed, and all infantry within D6" are sucked into the warp.


On another note, I noticed that in the Necrons list, you have several Wargear items that cost more than 30 points. How do those fit into your OGC rules? Are they currently outlawed, or are exceptions made to the 30pt rule for OGC-origin wargear?

[James 40K Champ ***]

Fair enuf - I just think the whole concept of it is ideotic. Necrons are meant to be a quick raiding force, not have giant telleporting pyramids

*sigh*

ah well thats just what I think, Ill never be using one. And I won last tournament with a fast necron force.

[Adoni-Zedek]

I suppose you could limit it to C'Tan necrons only, not allowed for the faster Overlord Necrons. Perhaps limit the fast-attack options of the C'Tan necrons as well, to give a larger distinction between the two. I don't know, I'm just spouting. Never played with or against necrons, so you'd have a much better idea than I would.

[James 40K Champ ***]

I get your ideas.

But the Overlord necrons were a kinda side track special army, for character and to add something a little different. Weve never used them (cos ive enever bothered to make an army)

Normal necron forces can take C'tan or not in the same way eldar or chaos take their monsters.

In general i dont use Ctan or Overlords, just a standard necron force

[tturen]

I've had chance to look over the 2nd docs and the 3rd Ed codex and it looks like their stats don't get increases at least for WS and BS for character models. So your numbers look good.

Scarab swarms are Necron Grechin. Sounds fine to me. I think we might use them as regular scarabs though. That will depend on model availability for now.

Destroyer wreck sounds good both in terms of Necrons and data fax results. Destroyed but he might come back as a regular Necron.

We will see Monoliths. They are important to 3rd Ed so we will them have in our games. I suspect our Necron player will demand them.

Adoni the Monolith cost looks about right given its 3rd Ed cost of 235 points. Teleportation looks fine as well. Think we will start with that version.

I'm not sure about the scarabs being characters and limited to 3 per army. I think we may have to expand the availability and killing three or so should earn a VP.

Why are the wargear points so limited for Lords and such? Is this to prevent the construction of a super character something OGC clearly frowns on? Even in 3rd Ed they can take more points in wargear.

Thanks so far! I'll post more later.

[Adoni-Zedek]

And we all know, the more points you spend tooling up your characters, the more fun Tturen has bumping them off!

[El Capitan]

Our scarab hero choice idea was a random test and has proved to be the perfect solution. Under the old rules, any Necron player worth their salt would pile i these things (5 scarabs on an army locks the entire army down - -5 to hit, vehicles & terminators cant move, cc weapons power down etc yet they are worth a VP each so the games were always - kill as many scarabs as possible, if you failed you lost, if you got them you'd win without having to do much damage to the other Necrons. Funnily - as soon as scarabs began to be used in this way - Necron win ratio increased from around 20% to 50% (as it should be)

Our Necrons Codex has years and years of testing - many things have come and gone, the Lords wargear choices for example, used to be bigger but now its deliberately set to prevent some combo's - and we only allow the 'artifacts of war'. Our necrons function nothing like their 4th edition compatriots, and instead embody what the Necrons were intended to be - of course intersting and charcterful rules simply cannot work in the new editions. I give caution to how you approach scarabs, but as for the rest of the Codex - you should find it all works perfectly, every unit has functioned in its correct role in hundreds of different battlefield situations and the list enables a great range of Necron army styles. Our own additions of course are the General, the artifacts (these were all done before 3rd edition - when we read the new codex it was surprising how even some of the names were the same!), the Reaver and the Stalker, all were put in as the Necrons needed support in these areas and they fit in with the army theme.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Scarabs are funny, we have generally found that not using too many keeps the game fun and fluent. ANd youd be supprised the damage you can still do with 3 scarabs

[tturen]

I'll keep all that in mind. I looked at the wargear combos that are possible with a higher alotment of points and it is indeed nasty. We'll have to see how it all plays out with our more traditional rules. The Necrons might need some help though if we keep all those limitations on wargear and scarabs given how our group tends to play anyway.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Having 3 scarabs give away 1 victory point (and unlimited scarabs) sounds not too bad to me.

I always used to take about 8 scarabs and it was allways my downfall as that was pretty much just giving away 8 points. :/

But now I use only 3 (for no VPs) they are a great part of my plan, but dont spoil the whole game too much.

I guess its down to you to playtest with your own group of players and find what works best for you.

[Charly]

ive always thought no vps for the scarabs was a bit odd considering what they can do, used right all your vehicles bearly work by turn 2, so u have one chance to get rid of them, usually at -3 to hit because of the speed and often in heavy cover as they are so small. there very difficult to get rid of, so the necron player basically automaticly disables vehicles for free (vp's wise)

[Adoni-Zedek]

I think scarabs should provide VP's like lesser daemons, 1 VP per 3 scarabs. Are Necrons allowed to use the two 40 pt wargear items in your rules?

[Charly]

i think id take 9 scarabs if that was the case. it needs more limiting than that. i think we limited wargear to 30pt items max, what are the 40pt items you speak of?

[tturen]

The issue I see with scrabs isn't their abilities per say but their toughness of 8 and the 2+ save. If they make the game less entertaining with those stats then the stats need to be reduced or the cost increased. I noticed one factor though not in the OGC codex that could be included to help reduce the number of scarabs to reasonable levels without altering the stats. The original 2nd Ed rules require a player to take 5 Necron Warriors per Scarab. Try and take nine of them and you would need 45 Warriors or nearly 2000 points of warriors alone. Certainly a restriction like this would help. With a 2000 point force with stripped commander and maxed Necron warrior/scarabs you would get 7 scarabs with 166 points left for other stuff. If thats to many scarabs then boost the match to 6 Necron Warriors per Scarab. That would max scarabs at 6 while putting a huge crimp in army selection. I think a player who opted to take more than 5 maybe even more than 4 would have a tough time under the regular 2nd rules.

Yep, I'm adding in the restriction of 1per 5 Warriors. 3 scarabs will also = 1 VP. I was thinking 1-3=1VP 4-6= 2VP 7-9= 3VP. No free lunches!

On the wargear front:

Hyper Disruptor 40 pts.
Resurrection Orb 40 pts.

[Charly]

that sounds quite sensible. the vp's done like that would also encourage a necron player to take either 3, or 6 scarabs, but taking 6 would limit his other choices as you explained.

[El Capitan]

It was 2 scarabs per 5 Necron Warriors in the orginal 2nd ed. rules. Plus 2 VP's for 6 scarabs? A decent player will should demolish everyone but tyranids with that - scarabs typically have -2 from overwatch at least so its hard to stop so many.

Our restrictions on wargear dont cover quirky things like DE Instruments of Death, Chaos Rewards & Necron Artifacts of War

[tturen]

Indeed it was two per five in the original rules. I think though if scarabs are indeed such a pain 1 per 5 would work OK well. Take six scarabs and thats 1500 points without a commander. If your playing under the original 2nd rules and playing 'heavy' as our group does I don't see that force as all that nasty. I suppose we will see soon enough though.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Scarabs arnt too good - necrons are very specialist.. yes they are very good, but thats how they work.

5 necron limitation was in origional rules and we have always used the origional rules (just built on them).

Having 1 VP for each 3 scarabs and unlimited scarabs would be in necrons favour. Yes I would take 6, and the possible loss of 2 VPs would easily be worth that.

6 scarabs could quite easily nearly lock down most of an amry. Where as 3 can still have the desired effect but only in certain areas.. they become more strategical.

So long as we keep a restriction of 3 though there should definatly be no VPs (as in char worth less than 50)