Bikes

[El Capitan]

A revenwing bike at 43 points is far too much a good deal. Also im tending to agree with Brown more, that maybe theres nothing wrong with bike costs in the first place.

Lets look at the OGC evidence; The only bike heavy space marine player weve had was Matt Bentley, who made the '99 semi's, came 3rd in his group in T2k, and had a 60% general win ratio - thats effective

My personal expereince using bikes is to send them on random missions on their own to get blown up, they are an incredibly fun unit to use. Yet when part of a combined attack, they are incredibly effective, its basically an unbreakable rapid firing space marine hitting the enemy where you want and being in cover on behalf of the speed.

I'd like to see this White Scars army of brown's, he's seems confident of causing major damge with it with no points amendments, and I'm confident he will. The reason i dont generally take bikes as Chaos is because I lack the jump packing option to combine effective assaults, I also dont have thigns like attack bikes to screen.

The idea of points reduction on behalf of losing bolter, and their special rules is a bit silly now I think about it, the bike has enhanced equivalent built in! And with clever use, a fast speed ravenwing bike heading along a fenceline would be -5 to hit, then use the skid turn to bring the thing to bear on the attacker, thats awesome, but not seen bikes used in such a way sionce the bentley days.

As a last note, Bentley actually had the Ravenwing boxed set, whence he was using a ravenwing land speder

[Charly]

it was u that sugested the points drop in the first place so woteva, just make a final desicion soon so i can stop re-glueing everything.

[El Capitan]

Unfortunately things must be tested first. There will be no price drops for the tournament though. The bike decisions will come when somebody basically fields a bike army

[Charly]

so i have to pay 55 pts for a bike in the tournament? *puts army in the bin*

[El Capitan]

True, eldar bikes are better for the points, but then Eldar dont have Terminators and heavy tanks and a squad of gretchin will bring some jetbikes down whereas they dont stand a chance aganst marine bikes.

I'd like to see how brwon perfroms with a bike army first, I have a feeling he could cause mass damage with it, and punish a 10 point reduction. If we have a few bike armies rolling out, then we can judge their effectienss and possible points change.

[tturen]

He, he, he, points are the reason we don't hany any bikes in marine forces around here in the first place. On the other hand Eldar bikes are frequent and for good reason! It just seems to me both the above armies need a points adjust. Eldar up and marines down on these units You would never get me to spend good money on marine bikes in the hope of a points reduction in the future. On the other hand the Eldar jets are an excellent investment.

[James 40K Champ ***]

I think you are doing marien bikes a great misjustice.

Will be a while before I feild white scars, maybe end of summer. But mikes right, we cant play a tournament on fresh rule changes. What if you win hands down? there would clearly be controversy.

If you feel uncomfortable, use you ultras for the tourn. You shouldnt be feilding an army you have no idea how to play with anyway.

Sisters and Necrons play in failrly similar ways, and it still took me a handfull of games to start getting wins with sisters. SO stick to what you know.

[Charly]

im keeping my options open for now. id be happy to use either army, just a little concerned about the size of the dark angel one, its beginning to seem a little low in numbers. spose im used to vanilla tho. esentially ultra and dark angels are the same army so knowing how they work isnt a problem, just a case of getting used to the bonus rules, even those are just better versions of units ive used plenty of times. the battles that ive had with dark angels have certainly been more fun for me than using ultras, and i like the speed of the army. the dark angels army is pretty much finalised now, gonna start choosing the ultramarine army tomoz. then il see which one i like best by the 10th!

[James 40K Champ ***]

ahh young grass hopper, a bike mouted army and an army of vanilla mariens could not be much different, the tactics I would use for both those armys would be massivley different. You have not used bikes (to much extent before) so trust me, you (and I) will take a few battles adjusting to how to achive success with them.

[Charly]

yeah i see your point, i understand the tactics involved have to be completely different, i meant i know the troops stat wise etc, its not like a new army to get used in that sence. hopefully i can fit in a few games with both armies before the tournament.

[James 40K Champ ***]

Stats are fairly irrelevant when planning strategies, they should be right back in your head when your working out what can take what on, but they shouldnt have much bareing on your movements as such.

The thing is an army on bikes and a standard army would hit your oppononet very differently. Speed is such a huge factor, used correctly it is very powerful.

[Charly]

yeah i understand your point. assault marines now make up the core of my dark angels army really, still a few bikes in it but i wudnt class it as a bike army, just a fast attack one. ive chosen my ultramarine army too now, jus needs a few tweeks here and there. its the first time ive really picked an army where each unit has very specific roles which its designed to accomplish, and a few general purpose things thrown in too. i realise thats fairly basic army selection, but its rarely done.

[James 40K Champ ***]

yeah good stuff, thats exactly what you need

[James 40K Champ ***]

whats the rule for skid turn?

Is it a strength test, or inititive? and i take it u get a 90 degree turn at the end of your movement if u pass? what happens if u fail?

[tturen]

Skid turns allow an extra 45 degree turn for bikes. You have to roll for each extra turn you want to make. A D6 is rolled on the Skid Test Chart. 4+ and you have no problems. Roll less and you might not be able to fight/fire (driver), even less and no fight/fire (driver and possible gunner), lastly its crash and burn on a 1 at fast speed.

[Charly]

ah, ive found the rules on this, and i found something else out! bikes and trikes can go from slow speed to fast speed in one turn, with needing to go through combat speed. but it says to note that the can only slow down at the same rate as other vehicles. so, skid turns, u can make as many 45 degree as u want without penalty, just a skid test (pg83 in the rulebook) is required every time. some other rules from that section.. bikers can mount and dismount bikes and act as normal marines. bikes only cause damage to one location when they collide with larger vehicles.. hit and run attacks are done in the movement phase,each model has one attack with no parries allowed, then the bike continues on in the same turn, but may not shoot. thats about all the fun things a bike can do!

[James 40K Champ ***]

thats pretty cool, makes them very manouverable ane very fast

[Adoni-Zedek]

Can jetbikes perform skid turns?

[El Capitan]

I would assume not,

though they can have vectored engines which gives them +1 turn at combat and fast speed

[tturen]

I don't think GW ever intended jet bikes to make 'skid turns'. No official rule on the matter exists that I am aware of.